Manufacturing Extension Partnerships: Manufacturing Matters

Damon Pistulka  00:04

Alright, everyone, it is Friday, and you know what that means. It is time for stop being the best kept secret. I am your one of your hosts, co host, Damon Pistulka, that gentleman right over there is Curt Anderson, and today we’re going to be talking about manufacturing extension partnerships, and I think just the state of manufacturing in the United States with Carroll Thomas going to be awesome. Curt, take it away, my friend and

Curt Anderson  00:34

dude, what I tell you, Carroll really needs to reevaluate who she hangs out with, doesn’t she 100% she needs to be a much better judge of character. I think 100% what an absolute honor, what a privilege. We were just we were we were laughing so hard. Yeah, we’re starting a little bit late, but Carroll Thomas, what a privilege to have you with us once again, your repeat offender on our little show. Thank you for coming back. How are you today?

Carroll Thomas  01:01

Okay, okay, and it’s so good to see you guys. I mean, don’t be the best kept secret, is my motto, you know, although I like to live in the shadows,

Curt Anderson  01:13

that’s right. So alright, we were just having tons of laughs. There’s a super, incredibly exciting things going on. And just, I want to give a little background, so I just, you know your friend of the show been on many times, and just what a wild, wild career you’ve had from I’m gonna, I’m Art Gallery, QVC, you ended up your associate director of this, SBDC, the Small Business Development Center. Then ended up being the director of the MEPs, which we’re going to talk about today. MEP being the manufacturing extension partnerships. l, did you ever dream that this, that that path of your career? Did you ever kind of see that path taking place? Yeah,

Carroll Thomas  01:53

I didn’t know. I was telling you my my dad asked me when I was little, what do you want to be when you grow up and I’m just like, alive, you know, you know, you never know, and you have to be open. You really have to be open to what’s your purpose in life. And so it just so happened in going through the different things. I mean, I actually started as a small manufacturer, very, very small, you know, doing home decor. You know, pictures in the homes, also in offices and that kind of thing. And I love putting things together. I love seeing things made and, and I got that opportunity when I went to QVC and went to all 50 states. And, I mean, you know, I love this country because of all the different things we make. I mean, we make everything and everybody loves and, you know, have a lot of pride in what they make. And so, did I ever think that this would be my calling? No, I mean, you know, I don’t know. I for me, a plant tour is a religious experience. So this should tell you, you know, I am, yeah, I’m. I agree with you, yeah. I mean, it is. I have seen corrugated cardboard made street signs made um, onion rings made different types of devices used in medical division, Jelly Beans made, hats made. You know, shoes made, boots made. I mean, all everything you could possibly imagine. And fascinating to me were the different machines that they had to make in order to make these things. And, you know, the people who work in these factories and plants are so, you know, really have a lot of pride in what they make and and want everybody to buy it and have it and I mean, it really is a wonderful experience to meet these people, to go visit the plant, to find out what, what problems they solve on a daily basis as they make things, their hopes and their dreams of what they’d like to see Ideas like I love when you go in and you talk to a business owner and they say, oh, you know, here’s what we make now, but here’s what our thought is. I’ll never forget I went to Philadelphia and just outside of Philly and saw a corrugated cardboard manufacturer, and his big idea was making cardboard boxes that, you know, food could be shipped in, and it would have the properties so that, you know, you would hold in any of the liquid. It would keep from getting bacteria. It could be shipped very easily and lighter than, and better for the environment, than. Plastic and stuff. I mean, it sounds like a little idea, but it was huge, and he, once he got that that box, made the material. I mean, it took off. He was just a corrugated cardboard maker, and would make boxes any size you want, very, very low tech kind of thing. But he got into technology by making this special corrugated carport that you could actually, you know, it would ship and freeze or keep things cool all over the country. Again. Really small story, but I got inspired by him and what he did, and all of the people that worked in his little corrugated cardboard plant in just outside of Philly,

Curt Anderson  05:51

it’s just, it’s just so wonderful. How amazing. And I guess, you know, for fear of, like, using that word, like, you know, those boring industries, those boring products, we think corrugated, you know, not super exciting, but it was just like the passion and just the excitement of, like we made this, you know, pride that that whole company takes, and just like you just sharing that enthusiasm, yeah, so you just made me think of a question for you. I’m going to throw, I’m throwing a little curve ball at

Carroll Thomas  06:16

you. Carol, no problem. Okay,

Curt Anderson  06:18

you had a, an incredible career at QVC, really. And early on, right? Like, you were a pioneer at QVC, correct? Yes.

Carroll Thomas  06:26

Oh yes, yes. Early on, I I had an idea, which is always like, if you like, I Love Lucy. That’s me, Lucy, you know, like, what did you get into? Now, I had this idea that I was actually working at the National Gallery of Art, and I loved the shops and everything that sold there, and I also loved all of the exhibits. And I said, Well, what if we could work with QVC and show the exhibit and sell what’s in the shops right on QVC. I went to QVC with that idea, and they offered me a job to be the new business development buyer. And this is looking for products all over the US, made in the US, that could be sold. And eventually I did get to my idea of the museum tour. And they did go to Brooklyn and Smithsonian and bunch of different things. But in taking on the quest for America’s best, finding all these products, I was able to to see everything that you know each state was known for, and also different types of things that had never, I never knew that. Okay, in Colorado, there could be things that are made that would help with helicopters. You know, you just don’t know where, where things, where different hubs of manufacturing are. So I was able to learn a whole lot and see some very interesting things made, like a tongue scraper in Nebraska. And no, not just a tongue scraper and the electric tongue scraper in Nebraska. So you would just put that little device up, and it would clean your tongue. And I thought, Oh my gosh. What kind of demonstration this is going to be, I don’t know, but it was cool, you know? And then in Hawaii, colon blow. I’ll never, ever, ever forget that this guy, he had this, and we were like, oh, and it did sell. We actually did buy it, and it did sell, and it did work, by the way. I just, I don’t want to go anymore into that one. You know, I know people have seen red X. It’s this thing that you plug into your wall and it has an electrical output so that, you know, roaches and mice and whatever will get out of your house. That thing in the late 1990s was such a huge hit. The the owner who invented it, who was from Florida, made $25 million off that one. I mean, that was his take. That wasn’t, you know, he sold 25 million. Yeah, he actually took 25 so it, you know, in order for you to do that, it’s probably like 125 million, you know, product. But again, I see all these different things. This lady from Massachusetts, who, who made this. It’s really, really, really simple, two magnets that you put on one side of a glass on another side of glass, and you can hang a reef on it. So if you have your your glass door, you know, screen door in front of your regular door, you put this on both sides, and you can actually hang without, you know, making any kind of plastic or anything on your glass, hang your reef right on the door. A huge, huge hit, huge hit. I could tell you stories about things that are made everywhere.

Damon Pistulka  09:56

It’s just amazing. All the little ideas like. And I don’t mean to make them little, but little, just unique in that. And the products that are every single day, every

Carroll Thomas  10:08

day, every day, and the people, the people you know this one fellow from Maryland, he had this idea. He drove his poor wife crazy. He was going to be a success with that idea. I remember I put, put his product on. It was, it was great. He actually, it was a machine that it was hand done. It was electric, and you take little slivers of soap, like, you know, you get down to the very end, put it all in there, and heat it up a little bit and then put it in the machine, and you’d make your a brand new soap bar. You know, from that and his wife said, If you don’t put his product on, I am putting him out and, you know, but the support that your family has to, you know, give again, these are regular people. This isn’t, you know, you know people who are Einstein or anything like that, these are little ideas that came out, and he was able to be a success with that. So that was probably, you know, one of those. A big reason why I really like manufacturing is because of the people that I was able to meet and doing it. It’s wonderful,

Curt Anderson  11:23

just a wonderful relationships. Whoa, so my thought so before I side note, so you mentioned Lucy, here’s a funny thing. Before we were live, we were talking about the Bob Dylan Museum in Tulsa. We were talking about the prince Museum in Minneapolis, right where I live is the the Lucio ball Museum is, yeah, you gotta come visit me. I’m gonna take you to the Lucy Museum. Yes, have a wonderful little comedy center. It’s like the comedy Hall of Fame right here. So you’ve gotta, yeah. So that’s another reason for you and I to hang

Carroll Thomas  11:52

out. Oh yeah. And there’ll be a live Lucy in there. Like, oh, they

Curt Anderson  11:56

like, yeah. So like, when we have our comedy festival, there’s, like, Lucy’s everywhere. So you and I will dress like loose so, anyway, so, but here’s my QVC question for you. You know, as you share that passion for manufacturing, how cool would it be, as you were talking, I’m like, how cool would it be to have like, a QVC channel for like, manufacturers, you know, we’re like, you’re on site and like, you know, QVC is more, you know, like consumer products or makeup, or whatever the widgets are, you know, like, how cool would it be to have, like, some type of a QVC channel, right? 24/7 showing off our manufacturer? So anyway, as you were talking that just,

Carroll Thomas  12:33

that’s a really good it’s one that I had thought about for for suppliers. What if you’re a metal stamper, a molder, you know, and you make things that maybe they’re not the end product, they’re the case that the lipstick goes in, or they’re, you know, the piece that goes into a filter, you know, I think it would be, well, I don’t know, and maybe it’s me, but I think it would be cool.

Curt Anderson  12:58

I think, you know, like, alright, Carroll, we’re gonna start that idea too. How about like the ESPN manufacturing, yeah, like 24/7 manufacturing, right? So instead of like, just an hour here and there, you kind of like, there’s like a made, how it’s made. I think there’s a like ad or, yes, built America like, Damon, I know we love that. We’ve had number of those folks on so Hey, Damon, we’ve got a comments. Yeah, we

Damon Pistulka  13:24

do, and it’s from Tracy. Yeah. Tracy, toma, thank you. I value MEPs for their practical on the ground support and their commitment to addressing the specific needs of local manufacturers. It’s more than just strategic planning. It’s about delivering customized solutions that truly align with the unique challenges faced by small and mid sized manufacturers.

Carroll Thomas  13:48

Absolutely, absolutely I have seen Yes. Thank you very much. Tracy, you talk about unsung heroes or or best kept secret when I had my very small manufacturing establishment, there wasn’t an MEP and there, there are so many things that I could use this service with. You know, logistics, even just solving small problems in packaging, in in, you know, production, especially in production, getting your maximum amount of or at least increasing your, you know, return on investment, or finding, especially the equipment to make things. A lot of times manufacturers will have, you know, maybe they will grow out of a machine and go into something in a different way, and there isn’t a other than the MEP, because they see and they hear and they have connections. With these different companies, they can then suggest to another company that’s maybe starting out, try this CNC machine. It was used to make this, and this is your this is needed in your production. Try this late or, you know, different kinds of things that. This is what the MEP does, I can tell you, I remember specifically there was, I believe it was 2017 there were number of hurricanes, and one that particularly hit Houston, Texas. And a manufacturer was sitting in their plant. The owner was sitting in the plant and could see where all of his equipment had been flooded out from the hurricane. And an MEP person told the story, told us that he went in, asked guy, how are you doing? And the guy said, Look, all of my stuff is gone. He commiserated with him. He talked about it, they came up with a plan to to what they could do after the hurricane, where that he could get help from, where possibly he could get those machines either repaired or replaced or something. These are the kinds of things you never hear about. They’re they’re not even recorded in what NIST you know, would ask for in terms of impact, but they have a major, major impact in keeping that manufacturer in business and going on. And, you know, I think of that person as a business owner looking at their business like it’s gone. But here you have someone who can come in and help them understand it’s not looking good right now. However, let’s think about what we’re going to do in the future, and I will help you. You’re not alone. You see that is a something that is non tangible, that the MEP brings. You’re not alone. We’ve seen this before. We know what you’re going through. We can help you see behind the corner to get you to that next level of production efficiency that you need to have. And so Tracy, your statement is, for me, it’s an it’s an understatement for what truly the Manufacturing Extension Partnership practitioners out there on a daily basis help companies with totally you know, sometimes it gets recognized, but most times it doesn’t, and they don’t do it for the recognition. They do it because they love manufacturers and they love manufacturing. Yeah,

Curt Anderson  17:45

absolutely. Man, drop the mic. Carroll, yeah, give me goose bumps on that one. So that’s and we could dive deep. So again, so folks, if you’re joining us, thank you for joining us. We’re here with Carroll Thomas. We’re talking about the manufacturing extension partnerships. So those MEPs, whatever state that you’re in, there’s an MEP near you now, Carol, you happen to find yourself as the as you like to say, you know your name is on a door of this one particular office. What office were you in? I don’t remember.

Carroll Thomas  18:15

Yes. Funny, Curt, very value. Funny, I came, and I’ll explain to you how it came to the MEP. When I worked at QVC and talked with all these manufacturers who were trying to get their products on QVC, most of them did not understand pricing, and they just, you know, they were manufacturers in the moment, and use whatever wits they had and whatever kinds of information they could have. And I worked with one particular manufacturer in Hawaii who really wanted to get his product on, and I explained to him, it’s, you know, when you work with a major, major retailer like that, there’s risk. And so he said, Nope, I’m going forward. And he went, and I put his product on, and it didn’t sell. And when it didn’t sell, he he told me, and he told me afterwards that he had mortgaged his house and ended up losing his house. Well, about eight, nine months later, I found out, not, of course, through his family or anything, that he took his life and he, because he that was it. This was every he put everything into this. I didn’t really understand at that point, but it was, I was in my very early 40s, and it was a point where I realized, Okay, I am a great buyer. I can negotiate a great deal, but I am dealing with people. I am a person dealing with people, and I need to, I want to help them. I don’t want to put. In a position that they feel like they you know, they’re all alone, or they don’t have any assistance. And so I took that to say, Okay, who are you? And at that point, it was like 1999 2000 I ended up working for a lot less salary, but a lot more rewarding at the manufacturing extension partnership. And I started at pretty much one of their, their their very lowest position, from a being a business owner and from working as an executive, you know, at QVC, and it different. I said, Nope, I need to understand, because I think this is a really good program. I saw how it helped the manufacturers. I was working with the QVC, and from the very first day I started, what can I contribute? What from my experience, would I know? And you know, the years went on, I was plucked out of MEP to run the Small Business Development Centers at SBA. I got a management, a senior management position to do that. And I really love the SBA, because now I got to work with all the small businesses across the country, which, oh my goodness, I can’t even begin to tell you that that was amazing. But then I got plucked back to NIST and to the manufacturing essential partnership as the director of the program. This is not something I ever, ever, ever, ever, I mean, I this is where I come into the office on the very first day and even my very last day there, I looked at the sign on the door and it said Carroll Thomas, and I went, Oh, my God, they, wow. I fooled them. Or they, I don’t know anything about this. I mean, my experience with manufacturing is from my own business, from what I’ve done with other I am not an expert. I definitely was not good, you know, in the government, I remember wondering, how the heck did I end on this side of it? I you know, I always shunned away from the government because I didn’t like having to pay taxes, you know, and all the other stuff. You know, the handicapped that they put you through. But you know, you never know where you could make a difference. And on the on when I became the MEP director, I said, the first thing I will do is make sure that all of these wonderful people who work for the MEP centers across the country do not run into a manufacturer with a hammer looking for a nail that they listen to these business owners and help them and be there for them and show them the way to the future, and work together in doing that. And so, you know, when I I said, Well, I guess that that’s pretty cool, and that’s why I got to be in this position. But it, it just, it still made me laugh from the very last day. I’m like, oh. And then I thought about my dad, who’s no longer with us, and I said, Yeah, well, I guess if he asked me now what I want to be when I grow up, I’m like, Well, I guess I want to help manufacturers. Finally, I had my answer, but it took, it took my entire lifetime to come up with that.

Curt Anderson  23:24

Well, that’s absolutely fantastic. So how so for our small manufacturers out there, you know, they’re just nose to the grindstone, just kind of, like doing their thing. It’s hard to, like, even get your head above the the trench, if you will, right? They’re just dodging everything coming at them. How? What? What? With your career with your path at SBDC manufacture itself. What advice would you set? Would you share with a small manufacturer as far as far as like, you know, raising your hand, reaching out for help. What are your thoughts there?

Carroll Thomas  23:53

I’m probably the worst person to ask that too, because I I’m not really good at asking for help. I’ve always been resourceful, and that’s why I so connected to these you know, people who work in manufacturing, and especially the manufacturing club, the business owner. You as a business owner, you are resourceful. You’re not sitting there going, oh boy, I can’t do this. You know who’s going to help me? No, no, you figure it out. And my advice is one that I rarely took, but I give it to you. There is help. You can reach out. They do care. And if you can get to a manufacturing extension partnership person, they will listen. They will really listen. And they will, you know, not give you something like they gave everybody else. They will listen to your particular issue, your problems, what you need to know, and your the help that you need. And. And if they don’t have it, they will find an MEP person within the national network that will help you with your specific problem. And it is, you know, I see in the comment somebody, but compassion is rare. It is rare because it is genuine when you really are listening and empathetic. That’s genuine compassion and something that when you give out to the universe, it comes back to you. So I never, ever you know again. Thought that I would lead these people who are so much more smarter experienced than I but what I could do is support them in to do what they do best, and I could learn from them. I learned so much about manufacturing from them, and appreciated so much more than when I was with QVC, that you know it is, it is something that I wish more people would take the time to get to know, not just eat that snack, but understand what people did to get it so that Each one is identically good and packaged in a way so that it’s ready for you when you need it, and even just a piece of it. Look at your your laptop, you know there are so many different pieces to that laptop and so many different suppliers who helped to bring that together. It is a collaboration, much like this country is, and much like the world is, it is a collaboration of all of the the the the smart and intellectual things that have come together to design the different parts of your of your computer or whatever is you have, as I say, I have so many stories of manufacturers all over this country, a filter, an air filter manufacturer in as they call la lower Alabama, who is phenomenal, and he found that, guess what, women working in his factory were they did a better job than men. So here factory, you go in and again, a filter. How many people look at a filter and wonder how it’s made and see the work that that goes into it? I saw a thing of beauty. And the people you know, all the people, and particularly the women who made them, made sure those those filters, were the best filters out there. You know, again, so many, so many, so many different stories of of how things are made and and the care you don’t see, the care that goes to, I know there’s a million things that are made exactly the same. But do you know how hard that is, so that the quality, so that there you know isn’t you know to the best that they can everything is perfectly made. It takes a lot advanced manufacturing. Helps quite a bit with sensors and different types of digitalization of the process, but it’s an ingenuity still takes a lot of work to do it.

Curt Anderson  28:30

Alright? So you’ve been all 50 states, seen all sorts of manufacturers. You’ve been to LA lower Alabama. And what are there any other Are there particular entrepreneurs, particular store, you know, products that you were just like, Man, I just can’t believe that we’re making this here. Oh

Carroll Thomas  28:47

gosh. Well, in Vermont, I visited this they make different kinds of medical devices with mold, injection molding of different plastics. And I remember I had to get all with my little hat on when I went in my little net and everything. And they explained to me that one mold cost them $500,000 to purchase in order to make this. So every time there was an update to make a product better, they had to update or get a whole new mold to do. I was shocked to see that end of the advanced manufacturing and then another manufacturer in Vermont that made the most beautiful wood furniture you have ever, ever seen. I mean, he’s an artist, but he would take and his small factory in Burlington made, you know, incredible tables, incredible chairs and different kinds of things. So you. Have the gamut of advanced, advanced, very advanced manufacturing to that in, again, in lower Alabama, I saw the street signs. There’s a company that makes about about 10 or 12 states, street signs, stop signs, yield signs, you know, everything. What struck me when I went into to that plant was they actually went from raw material, and so this is what they call a vertical manufacturer, more material to the end product. And they would stamp, you know, silk screen, the the whatever message, the sign it they had to take the the raw material that they would melt down and then put into this machine, that, and I’m not giving you the technical terms, I’m giving You what I saw. Okay, get it into fine, thin sheets that then would be stamped into whatever, you know, if it’s a stop sign design, or a yield sign or or a highway sign kind of thing, and then go into the finishing of it and it. What struck me was that when I had gone to the corrugated cardboard. Manufacturer, those types of machines that that took the and took the raw material, made it into to paper, and then put the corrugation into the two sheets of the paper and come out, really resembled that the machine that was used to take that raw material for the the aluminum that was made into the the base of the street sign, very much the same it, it sort of ran on a cycle so that you didn’t want to run out of the material. It had to keep going in order to make it unbelievable. Unbelievable. I mean, I bike manufacturer up in in Minnesota, was able her husband making these beautiful bikes. They had all these suppliers put it together. They would actually make the finished product. He dropped dead one day, and she had to take over, and she didn’t think she was going to make it, and was able, with the help of the MEP in Minnesota, to step right in and keep going, you know, with it, I mean, like I said, it’s just and these, I never Forget these people. Some of them still send me Christmas cards up there, because it is, it as I say, it is a religious experience. It is phenomenal what they do, and everything that they do, and all the I’ll say it this way, all the government regulations that they have to get through, you know, to make stuff. And, okay, stand on this one leg, you know, what’s your hand behind your head? And, oh, yeah, I got it. I got it. Well, we’ll do that. Whatever you say. We’ll do that. We’ll get it going. Occasionally, it was like, Okay, we can’t do that. Can you help us out a little bit? And that’s another thing that the MEP did advocate for the manufacturers. You know, the advocacy to the elected officials, to the community leaders, that is an intangible that that the MEP offers and and for manufacturers, there is no other organization, especially on a national basis, that gives you that, and you do need in a national basis, I don’t care if you’re if you’re located, you know, in Mississippi, you do need to be able to have access to technologies, knowledge, you know, information that can help you in Maine, in Texas, in, You know, different parts of the country, because if you you know, I realize we’re the United States of America, however, we have to act like the United States of America, particularly where manufacturing is concerned, so that we can take advantage of all that is out there from all the years that that of knowledge and experience that we have so that we can use it to be the number one industrialized country in the world.

Curt Anderson  34:30

So our title today, so we got a little hashtag, manufacturing matters. And, of course, MEP matters, right? So what? What would we do without the MEP?

Carroll Thomas  34:43

Well, I can recall when I didn’t have the MEP. There were some things out there that I could go to, but nobody really understood, particularly with suppliers. Mm. You know, you’re tier four, you’re, you’re using, you know, raw materials in making it. You know, fashioning in it to that first state that is then used by another supplier. How do you, how do you, how are you able to make sure that you have enough customers, you know, because your job is to to, you know, manufacture your your job is to the production of it. Your job is not to say, Oh yeah, I see there’s a new company coming in over here, and, you know, in Montana, and I could possibly work with them. I read an article in in the post, it was like the beginning around the middle of of April, and it as a matter of fact, I wrote an op ed, which they didn’t put in. You know, to this article, this company was going to do very, very well with the tariffs, because they were able to find suppliers across the country in order to help them. But guess what? It took them seven years to find seven years, okay, luckily, they had been thinking, you know, that they needed to branch out and and find us suppliers, just in case, you know, there would be a situation with, you know, lack of suppliers outside of the country. They were thinking of this during COVID, and so they they got, you know, these suppliers together, but a couple of things happened. It one, it took them a long, long time, and this was the only US supply they were able to find. And, you know, the pricing was a little higher, and took them out of their their profit margin a little again. This is where, without the MEP, this is what manufacturers have to do. They stumble upon the answers. If they’re lucky, they have a, you know, a friend of a friend of a friend that knows this and that and can help them with all that. But you don’t have to do that with the MEP. You can ask one person, and they will, they will scour the country for those suppliers. And if there isn’t a supplier here in the US, and I have done this, I’ve actually seen it. I know this was standing up a net zero home. They were building a net zero home on the NIST campus. And they were looking for things, because this was with the Recovery Act, money that had been from the Obama administration. And they it had to be made in the US. This was it had to be done in the US, and they were looking for a hybrid water heater that could do both electric and and gas, and so they needed that could switch over wherever in the same unit. Okay, this was not made in the US. It was not made. Nobody could find it, except for me. Yes, I worked with the MEP in Connecticut, and they were able to find a very small company that was starting to do this, because they could see where this was going to be, something that’s needed. GE found out about that, and guess what? GE then took one of their plants from overseas and built a plant in the US that could do it, because they were, you know, a tiny company beat them in competition here in the US. And that product was bought for that net zero house, and it’s still in the NIST Net Zero house, you know, from there. So this is the world without MEP. It is a world where you are you’re blind, you know, you have no one that’s advocating for you, looking out for you, helping you with what the future is, navigating these regulations, you know, particularly in food safety and a bunch of different things that you have to, you have to do that may you may not even know that they were coming down the pike. And here this person from MEP, or these people from MEP known this, and one, they could advocate. Maybe we don’t need this regulation, you know, or two, if we do, how do we mitigate the risk and everything that’s involved in it? This is what you get with the manufacture. And I believe it’s this year or next year they’ll be celebrating, you know, 35 years of doing this. There is no other organization that knows manufacturing in this country, like the MEP. Program, period, period, okay, that this is it. And if you’re going to have policies that change with, you know, and they they can, that’s what life happens. A, advancement comes. B, you know, policies change. C, you know, regulations come and go and this and this, you need to have an organization with people who really care, who understand. They can fight for you and can help you in doing this. You can’t go, I mean, there are SBDCs that are sbtdcs, technology development centers that have information, they’re not focused on manufacturing and and there’s so many different sectors in manufacturing with so many different ways of production that okay, MEP is a general they have general knowledge, but they have enough People and enough context out there in various manufacturing ecosystems across the country that they can help you? Yeah,

Curt Anderson  41:05

I was on a call this week where there was a young woman, she was a West Coast manufacturer. She was trying to get her business started up, and she was evaluating a piece of equipment. It was like $100,000 piece of equipment, and she reached out to her. MEP, she’s like, Do you know anything about this equipment? The woman at that MEP, the director said, I don’t know anything, but I have a guy, and he’s in New at the New Jersey. MEP, who’s an expert on this, let me reach out and let me have you have a conversation. This person across country, on the east coast helped this person on the West Coast, he gave her multiple different options. What she was about to spend for $100,000 piece of equipment, she ended up spending 30 and it saved her $70,000 and she has a testimonial where, like the MEP, helped me start my business debt free, I saved $70,000 funds elsewhere, marketing. So, you know, other things to help elevate so, I mean, I just, I love what you’re saying. Carroll, all sorts of tons of incredible stories

Carroll Thomas  42:08

here. And I want to, you know, because I am looking at the comments too, I want to say, all right, no, it is not a panacea. You know, nothing is okay. Yeah, you can go into a situation and it not be ideal for you, but as opposed to not going into a situation at all, and perhaps you need to talk to somebody else and you can say, hey, look, you know what, you didn’t really help me. Is there somebody else there that can help me say it? Don’t sit back and say, Well, you know, it didn’t really work out. That’s

Curt Anderson  42:45

right, don’t you know? When he said, everything’s on a panacea. Please don’t talk to my wife, because I’ve got her fooled. But I’m just kidding. So all right, well, I know, Carroll, we could keep you here all day. We just want you back over and over. You are on multiple, uh, boards, so you’re doing all sorts of exciting things, anything that you want to share, like, what’s the latest greatest going on in your life right now? Well,

Carroll Thomas  43:07

I am actually on two boards that I like to talk about. One is a think tank, which you know, for me, I I’m not an esoteric person. I’m like, Hey, man, I

Curt Anderson  43:19

wasn’t invited to that. Were you invited to? Left out of that party? Right?

Damon Pistulka  43:23

That I got the big black line when they saw my name on the list. That’s what happened there.

Carroll Thomas  43:29

The itif, which is the Information Technology Innovation Foundation, is a think tank as bipartisan, and it is. It’s been out there, I think, since, like, 2004 2005 something like that. And they help with policy making. You know, in the technology area, this is a great organization, if you know, when you have time to sort of pick your head up, if you’re a manufacturer, and see what’s happening in the real world. One of the things that just came out from them that I did want to talk about is something called the state Hamilton index, and it talks about how most states are underperforming in advanced industries. It has listed all 50 states. I mean, it literally just came out. When did it come out? About three or four days ago, and Megan Ostertag actually put together the report it has each state in there. I would say, if you want to just learn a little bit about what’s going on in your state in terms of advanced manufacturing. You know, take a look at this report. It has in there that you know, most of the states are below what you say. They’re not performing in the advanced manufacturing. And. And there are states that that are a few that are performing, but what this report does, and again, only, if you have time, it’s not the kind of thing. I’m like, oh, boy, I can’t wait. No, I’d rather go to a plant. Okay? And I’m not, I’m not into reading policy. However, I like to know that this kind of thing is out there so that I know it’s helping the people who do write the policies. Hopefully they do look at this and they see, you know, what could be of interest, you know. And you know, what kinds of things can you take this regulation off of us? Can you help us with this? What’s needed. You know, they talk about that there are certain things that are needed, like assistance for the smaller manufacturers. They stay non partisan, and so they don’t specifically say, okay, yeah, we need to have the MEP. However, they talk about all the things that the MEP does and that it is needed. So this is one of the boards that I sit on. And again, this is just like the my office, you know, at NIST. I’m like, wow, why did they have me on this one? Because I am not that kind of person. I bring, you know reality to the pie in the sky stuff. The other one is, and I hope everybody’s heard of the manufacturing USA institutes. This is a group of, I think about 16, that some are funded by DOE, some are funded by DOD, and a couple are funded by NIST. In fact, there’s a brand new one. I know everybody’s heard of chips or the what’s happening in the semiconductor industry. This is the newest, latest that is looking at all the things that need to happen to bring semiconductor industry. Back to the US, and I’m particularly excited about this one, because they understand that the reason why the US is not, as you know, leading edge in this area, is not only because the big manufacturers have allowed it to go overseas, but it’s because they don’t have the ecosystem with the smaller manufacturers. So if you are a small manufacturer, that’s anything that you know is tangentially connected to the semiconductor industry, packaging, you know, processing, or anything like that. This is a good Institute to just keep an eye on and see what kinds of things are doing. I know that they’re going to be working with the MEPs. They’ve already reached out to several of them and have agreements with them to help with the workforce, the semiconductor industry workforce, and so this is, you know, one of the institutes that that are out there, but the institute that I sit on the board is, again, I’m a really pragmatic person, is MXD, manufacturing times digital. It is, if you are in manufacturing today, you have to have at least basic production or your operation digitalize. And that means you know, somehow you can look at your production, see where there are areas for improvement in efficiency and productivity, ways so that you can be a part of a supply chain that is digitalized. They work with very small people. They have a wonderful thing called a sensor kit that is available to smaller manufacturers so that they can just do a little demonstration on their own of their production processes to see how sensors could help them improve their efficiency and and their quality of what they’re making. So those are a couple of the the the boards connected with and like the old geezer that they put out, you know, to pasture, who Yeah, I look at policy, yeah, look at, you know, different projects and stuff, but I’m mostly interested in what’s happening in those plants and what’s happening with the business owners.

Curt Anderson  49:33

Yeah, it’s our religion, right? It’s our religion. Wow. Well, tons and Damon thoughts, I, you know, again, it’s, it just, it’s a religious experience when Carol comes on the show. What are your thoughts?

Damon Pistulka  49:48

It really is and just so great to hear, hear you. You’re again the background, there’s always new snippets that come out of your background are so great to listen to and learn. From and watching how you’re part of these long term big industry changing efforts that’s going to, you know, like you said, talked about chips and semiconductor industry United States, and then really focusing in and helping the small manufacturers continue to get the help they need, and the specialized manufacturers, because you saw a lot of that as you traveled around with your QVC days and then your MEP days,

Carroll Thomas  50:27

absolutely, absolutely. And thank you this, this, doing this is cathartic for me, so I can hopefully talk, and thank you for the folks to listen in hopefully. I wouldn’t say, reach out to me, but I would say, don’t give up. And I would say, there’s help out there. There’s people you need to talk to if you don’t have a great experience. Well, it’s on you to make sure you have a great experience. That’s what I say. Like, okay, you’re not gonna help me. I will find somebody that will help me. I am your worst customer, because you will help me.

Curt Anderson  51:03

Yeah, Be the squeaky wheel. That’s our advice today, right? Carol’s out. Is that our takeaway? Be that squeaky wheel. So be that squeaky wheel. So Carol, we wish you massive monster success. I know you have all sorts of exciting things going on, and you’re going to be coming back, hopefully at the end of summer, maybe early fall, to share some more exciting news with us too. Is that correct? Mike, yes. Okay, that’ll be great. Yes, that’ll be great. Well, I can’t wait and reunite. We’re going to have to do a couple museums together this summer. Oh yes, yes, we’ll figure out our travel plans. We’ll get to put the rest so damn it. Why don’t we wind down? It’s a wonderful Can you guys believe it’s the last Friday in May. Like, what like, wasn’t it New Year’s like, just a week ago, I felt like I thought 2025, just started, didn’t

Damon Pistulka  51:48

it? Yes, yes, it was. It’s like, it’s June

Curt Anderson  51:50

1 this weekend. So, yeah, I just want to thank everybody that dropped a comment. We appreciate you. Thank you for joining us. I want to give Hey Damon, I’m going to big round of applause for our dear friend Carroll Thomas man. She just keeps coming back to hang out with us. With us. I just Just thank you guys. Thank you guys for joining us. Appreciate you and again. Man, go back and listen to anything that Carroll just shared, if you miss anything, because she is just such an inspiration. And if you can go out and be half as inspiring as Carroll is, we will all make the world a better place. Damon, why don’t you close us out? Carroll, hang out with us for one second, and we’ll catch you guys next time.

Damon Pistulka  52:28

All right. Well, thanks everyone for being here. We had Joe and ashif. Sarthak, Matt. We had Tracy. And I know I see we got a bunch of other people that are on different platforms watching this too. Thanks so much for being here. And as Curt said, if you got in late to hear Carroll talk about the MEP, her experience in manufacturing and seeing all those great US manufacturers go back to the beginning, start over and and listen the whole thing through. We will be back again next week, and have a great weekend. Everyone applause.