Positioning Your Product as a Profit Center

Damon Pistulka  00:10

All right, everyone, it is Friday and you don’t that means it is time for manufacturing, e commerce, success and Curt, what didn’t we do? We don’t have our banner up today. We’ll put the banner on for now. Thanks everyone for being here. We are going to get going. We’re going to be talking about position your product as a profit center. I am one of your hosts. Damon pistolka, that lovely gentleman right over there, birthday week, gentlemen, I’ll just say that. Curt Anderson, take it away, my friend. Dude, just, you know, sit back, pretend we’re not here. Because, like, this is, like the best guest of all time. I’m sorry if it you know, whoever, but anyway, drop us. Know, let us know that you’re out there. Happy Friday. Happy November. Happy Friday, happy Halloween. Post, whatever. Right. Hope every recovered. Man, we’ve got the one, the only, the dynamo. We’ve got Sarah Murray in the house. Sarah,

Sara Murray  01:07

so good. How are you? I’m so good. Happy birthday. Curt,

Damon Pistulka  01:11

hey, thank you, man, that means a lot. I appreciate that. Thank you, Sara. So Sara just out of curiosity, did you? Did you do anything for Halloween?

Sara Murray  01:20

I did. I went out to my hometown, had a main street little gathering, and I about four months ago, going through a box in my parents garage. I found an old uniform, a uniform cluster days. So I found the uniform first and then, like four hours later, in a different box, I found my original name tag. I don’t know if you can see it there, so I just wore my blockbuster uniform as my costume. So

Damon Pistulka  01:51

for Sara, for people under the age of I’m going to guess 30. Well, can you please describe what is blockbuster? What are you like? What are you talking about? Rush?

Sara Murray  02:00

Blockbuster was a magical place. It was a retail store with all sorts of different categories of movies you could watch. And then on Friday night, it was like a thing. You’d go with your friends, you go with your family, you go to the blockbuster, and you’d pick out a movie, and you try to get your dad to buy you a $5 box of candy, and he would always say no, but it was a fun like outing, something like an hour to pick a movie.

Damon Pistulka  02:25

Yeah, that I remember those days. Are you saying that there was a time on this planet that, like, we couldn’t watch a movie on our phone, or we, like, we could, we didn’t have to, we had, we actually had to physically leave our homes to watch a movie. Is that what you’re

Sara Murray  02:40

saying correct? And this was, I think, when I worked there, DVDs were coming around. So it was less VHS life and more DVDs. But I will tell you, Blockbuster was my second job. I worked at the country club during the summer, and then during the winter time I’d work at Blockbuster. And my very first day at Blockbuster, I have such a funny story, but it has nothing really to do with what we’re talking about, but you guys are going to die. It’s my first day. I’m running a little bit late. I’m 16. It’s snowing, and I get into my car and I realize I’m out of gas. So go to the gas station, and this was far enough back where you could start filling up your car before you paid. So I threw in the pump, I run into pay, and then I just hop back in my driver’s seat, and I drive away and I hear this, like, really loud crunch. But I thought I just drove over ice, and I’m on the highway and I see the nozzle, and so I had to call my mom first, and she’s like, Oh, but put me at the gas station. And then I called blockbuster to say I was going to be late for my first day, and this is why you’re going to be late. And I said, Well, I was sort of in an accident. I didn’t know how to say it, because I was sort of in an accident, yeah, by myself. So I go back with, you know, with the shame of the nozzle and the hose back to the gas station. They were very nice. It just has a quick release. So they just connected it. And I show up at the blockbuster, 45 minutes late, and they said, You know what happened? So I told him the story, and my manager looks to me and says, We will never drug test you here, frazzled and late to my first day, but what is going on? So it was a very it was a very funny, and I’ve learned a lot from, you know, working at Blockbuster, and I do have a pivot into what we’re going to talk about today. So we could pivot into professional chit chat, if you want to get into it. Hey, Damon, we’ve got a couple.

Damon Pistulka  04:32

Yeah, we do. We do because we got Jason says, well, said Bob Woods dropping the Be Kind Rewind back in the VA, yeah, yeah. And uzman says greetings from uzman today. Thanks, Sarah. Mark regman, hey, it would have taken so long to find a movie if you just took one of Sarah’s picks. I don’t know what that means. About it, they would have so when you went into the movie store Damon, they would actually like people that worked there. They would say, like, you know, Sarah’s favorite picks ever movies lined up. So mark that. Well, that’s right there, yeah. What were your picks? First of all, Sarah, a lot

Sara Murray  05:16

of Leonardo DiCaprio movies. Yep, that was the age. What about you guys? What would your picks be in your blockbuster life?

Damon Pistulka  05:24

Oh, you know, back back Buster, you know, ladder, you know, the Godfather, right? Of course, you know, you know, Saving Private Ryan. Those were like my jams back then. I have no shame. Mine would have been the dumb, funny ones, caddy show. You know that back in that back in that time, what was the other one? The Animal House, animal house. Oh, my goodness, those have been we’re showing our age. Damon. So yeah, mark that. That brought back some great memories. Lose brothers, yeah, like, what

Sara Murray  05:56

were your first jobs?

Damon Pistulka  05:59

Oh, what was my first job? Man, that’s a great question. You know, I was at 12 years old. I was a paper boy, not a very good one. Damon, how about you? Well, I mean, growing up on a farm, I worked there first, but then when I had to go out and get a job, I worked at the local feed store, Huck and feed bags all summer. Yeah, yeah, it’s not fun. I want to tell you, when you get, like, a one ton pickup, and you can heap the thing up with 50 pound bags and do that five days a week. It’s not fun, yeah, not good for the back so, yeah. So we got Blockbuster Video newspapers, so anybody under 30 is like, like, they’re totally alienated conversation, right?

06:35

Black Buster was a

Sara Murray  06:37

pretty cush job, though. It was, like, you just got to put on whatever movie you wanted to watch, and, yeah, chat with your friends. You know, it was, it was a fun job. I enjoyed it. And it’s, you know, it’s sad that it went away, because I think, really, we all know the reason why they just didn’t evolve with what the clients wanted, you know. And so you think about Blockbuster and like the at the time, it provided a place to gather, and it was more of an experience. But then, as we got busier and the phones came out and the Internet came out, you know, all of a sudden, red box pops up. And now that’s a little more convenient, because you could reserve the movie ahead of time. Because what would suck is you’d get to Blockbuster and the movie you wanted was already gone, you know. So that was one thing. The other thing, of course, you know, is that the gas station is at the grocery store so you could do other errands. And then, of course, Netflix comes along, and they switch it where, instead of shopping the aisles your screen, you know, you’re strolling your your screen. And of course, then they’re mailing the DVDs to us. Oh, and then they launched their original series, and there’s no commercials, and we don’t have to wait week over week. So they evolved with what the client wanted. And I think, you know, it’s a B to B or, excuse me, B to C lesson, but it really applies to what we’re going to talk about today, too, because the way that we communicate our product or our service to our clients has to change and evolve to their lifestyle. So in a B to C environment, it’s, how are you going to make my life better or easier or more convenient? In a B to B environment, it’s more around, how are you going to make me money, or how are you going to save them money? And so that’s kind of the shift that I want to talk about on the show today.

Damon Pistulka  08:11

Yeah, and, you know, a couple things unpack right there. So I so I’m a total geek on companies that go obsolete, so I love this conversation more. So I have an old blog post, you know, where blockbuster Circuit City, Kodak, you know, like, you know, think about Kodak. I live in upstate New York. You like Kodak, you know, again, showing my age. Damon, like, did you ever think that we’d live long enough that Kodak was obsolete and didn’t exist? Unfathomable, you know, Jim Collins wrote the book Good to Great. In the book, Good to Great is Circuit City is an example of a great company. Yeah, he came out with that book in like, 2000 2001 they were bankrupt, if I’m not mistaken, within five years. And so the the founder’s son, who is, I think, see, if I’m not butchering this, came out with a book Good to Great, to gone. And so Sara, I love this conversation. Let’s take this run with it. Talk about blockbuster. And one thing before I I stop you, talked about community. What? What? Damon, we’re constantly talking about, like, how businesses need to build community. That’s what social does. That’s what we’re doing here, Sara, that’s how we came together building that community, but, you know, and blockbuster was, it was like that community, you know, Friday night, hey, you know, you see friends, or get your movie, or whatever it might be. But let’s go there. Let’s dive in on, like, how building that community is so important. But even though they built that community, they still became obsolete. Let’s, let’s hear your thoughts there,

Sara Murray  09:37

because they didn’t adapt to our lifestyle. I think that’s really, like, the community is important, but it also has to adapt with our lifestyle, our changing lifestyle. And so another example, like, I like to give the B to C ones because they’re very, very literal, and then we can apply them to B to B. Like, everyone knows Netflix. This is I brought props today, you guys. Everyone knows Starbucks, right? Yeah. So I want to ask you, when you think about Starbucks, what do you like about Starbucks? Because this is a company that’s obviously not obsolete. It’s not God. It’s really in our face all the time. Like Damon, why do you like Starbucks?

Damon Pistulka  10:13

You can find them anywhere in the world, and I know I can go in even if I don’t particularly like the coffee. I can have the same thing I’m going to have at home anywhere else,

Sara Murray  10:23

good. Curt, why do you like Starbucks? Well, I’m

Damon Pistulka  10:26

going to speak for someone, when you have a teenage daughter, I have a teenage daughter and, like, and she, you know, like, hey, you know, we’re going somewhere like, and hey, we need leave now. I’m like, Well, you know, we’ve got an extra five minutes. And, like, no, because we’re making a little detour. She’s on her phone, you know, booking her her Starbucks. So, you know, my daughter is a raving fan. It’s easy, it’s convenient, it’s a little bit of a status. Damon, like you said, you know, it’s just so consistent, you know, yeah,

Sara Murray  10:50

and I know if anyone wants to throw in the chat why they like Starbucks, but I think when I think about why I like Starbucks, I like that, I can order it from the app, but it also has the GPS built in, because you’re usually driving around, so you don’t want to be, like, searching while you’re driving. So, like it, you know, it’s built in there. If I don’t have my wallet on me, I can pay with my phone. I could pay with the watch. You know, they make it easy to pay. Kind of brilliant of them too, because they’re sitting on all of our money. They’re sitting on gift cards. They’re sitting on our cash that we just, you know, preload the cards. But when you think about why people like Starbucks, they never say it’s because the coffee’s so amazing. Like the product is never, ever, ever. Number one, it’s always convenience, consistency and just ease of use, how it fits into our lives. And so when I think about like the product, when we get into B2B environments, everyone’s just throwing up product vomit everywhere. I mean, it is just like an epidemic, and it’s something I’m really passionate about. So I appreciate you guys. Let me come on the show and talk about it, because I think it’s the number one way that where we can differentiate ourselves when we’re communicating our value to our prospects. And so the first kind of, like, big chunk I want to tackle with you both is selling to what I call program selling, versus product selling. And so in a B2B environment, when you think about program selling, I mean, we can riff on some of these. But like, how often are you talking to your clients about your warranty or your tech support or your quick ship programs, or, Hey, we have an eCommerce platform you can buy, you know, any time of day. You don’t need to wait for, you know, the fax machine to receive it, or someone to manually input your PO. Like, kind of shifting the mindset to talking about how you support your prospect of your clients as a partner. Versus, here’s all the things our product does,

Damon Pistulka  12:41

yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s great. And I use this for decades, actually, back in the day when I was running companies, what we would do, one of the things that was, one of the companies we did, would support retailers as they expanded. And one of the reasons we were able to help so many retailers expand is, as an organization, having multiple facilities around the company our country. I could say we’ll deliver a new store of products to you anywhere in the United States in 48 hours. Just tell us when they’re going we don’t care how many you’re going to do. We will have them. And for us, it was easy to do, because we were doing the standard products went out for a store, boom, but that was a program that we had. The products were the products, right? They were the products they got. They use good, you know, you talk about value, quality, all that junk. That’s we’re not even talking about, that we’re talking about supporting their desire to expand rapidly anywhere in the US. And that’s what they said, and we said, in 48 hours, we will have your product at your door anywhere, and nobody else could do it.

Sara Murray  13:49

I have a client I’m working with right now, and they’re in an industry with really long lead times. Yep, they have stocked goods. So we’re talking, you know, we’re talking about serviceability, quick ship. We can get it to you in there. Um, other things that you could consider for you know, program benefits might be a single point of contact. Who do you call when you need help? Or what are your service plans look like? So every everyone out here has the ability to package a program value pitch, as opposed to just product features. So those are just some of the examples that I could think of in this category. Um, anything else you’d want to add there that I missed?

Damon Pistulka  14:27

Couple comments real quick. Damon, if you want to grab those, yep. First of all, I don’t know is this, I too like the convenience they provide when I need a coffee on the fly, talking about Starbucks. And then it said, they said before that too evolve or dissolve. That’s just the way it is. And then we have Bob Woods stepping in here and saying, product vomit, too many do do this without building value around what their products do. And yes, Bob, that’s what I’ve talked about for many years. Is oftentimes your best value to your customer is not the product excels, but it’s. Everything around it, because I used to sell an injection molding too, right? A plastic parts. Anybody can make a plastic part, right? But what do you sell? You sell, we are running 24/7, we have an extremely low defect rate. You know, all these kind of things we’re close to your facility, just these kind of things that you can do that that really benefit your customer in these competitive places, like we’re talking in manufacturing. If you’re in contract manufacturing, there’s a there’s 10s of 1000s of CNC machining places, metal fabrication, all that kind of stuff across the United States. How do you differentiate yourself from it’s not because you’re the best metal Bender in the world, I’ll tell you that, right?

Sara Murray  15:42

Well, I think like the program approach is like the foundation, and once you kind of get clarity on the program approach, this is really where we start to look at your client’s business model and how we’re still not thinking about product yet, but we can start thinking about how some of those features either make your client money, or save your client money. And there’s so many things that you know we can we’ve all experienced and we’re probably guilty of. And what’s unfortunate is that when someone starts product vomiting on you, it’s usually not for a lack of compassion for the business, compassion for your for your company. Knowledge and expertise, industry expertise. It’s just a matter of like, getting in this autopilot mode and spinning your wheels instead of just taking the time to stop and listen. I was at a trade show. This was just couple days ago, Wednesday, and I have a client who’s looking at maybe rolling out like 300 TVs or kiosks around his his different retail locations. And there were a lot of vendors there that had this on display. So I walk in the booth and said, Tell me more about this. And the guy starts talking about resolution and processor speed. And I said, Can I just like, stop you? And I said, Really, I want to know, what does it cost if I have how does the content get loaded on there? If I have three different locations, do you drop ship it and we program each different content for different retail locations, and they were just, just at a loss. I kind of felt bad for them at one point. I was like, Is there a sales manager on the floor I could talk to? Because all they knew how to do was talk about the processor and the resolution and that eventually. But I don’t even fit for the business yet, and I think Miss this first part, and is the most important part,

Damon Pistulka  17:25

it’s gotta be a fit for that. Like you said, either make you more money or save you money to be to make that decision easy for the customer. And that comes from things around the product,

Sara Murray  17:35

right? If they would have given an example and said, Yeah, we have a similar case study where we have 10 locations, and this kiosk just cycles frequently asked questions, so the people in line can watch the FAQs, and then the salesperson doesn’t waste time when they get to check out. Oh, now I have a story I can remember and go tell it to my client. I don’t care about resolution yet, because doesn’t matter yet. So I think that’s the disconnect. Is just bridging that gap and making sure that we’re covering that. Yeah, I

Damon Pistulka  18:04

love that. So we had a guest couple weeks ago, Damon, our dear friend John from apparel redefined. He just so he he’s a manufacturer of printed clothing, embroidery, that type of thing. You know, wonderful company in Chicago, 60 employees. And he’s like, You know what? I sell memories. I sell the t shirt that the 12 year old won the Little League, you know, championship, or I the the cancer walk that we dedicated to mom. Or, you know, like he’s, you know, the family gathering, you know, hey, the you know, the Murrays, you know, you know, blah blah blah anniversary party, blah blah, you know, like, so it’s like, when you focus on, as you’re saying, like, the solution, the you know, what you’re giving to the gift that you’re giving to your client, as opposed to just those features. Sarah, let’s go. Let’s take it a little bit further. So I don’t know if you’re ready for this. We I think you were sharing with us that you have four steps. Are we? Are we there yet? Are we? Are we ready for

Sara Murray  18:56

we get into like because I think the four steps is the how to execute. I want to give one more example. And, you know, we can layer it a couple of times. One of the products I used to sell, it is just an easy example, so I use a lot. I used to sell fire pits. And there was an OEM component in the fire pit, the burner kit, right? It could burn natural gas or propane. And then I sold the completed, beautiful fire pit. And what would happen is customers would come up and they’d ask, what’s the material? How hot does it get? What’s the fuel? Type, blah, blah, you know, like, just, we just get in this back and forth conversation about the product. But they would never remember that it’s, you know, 30,000 BTUs, like, that doesn’t matter yet, it matters once we learn where it’s going to be. Are you in Wisconsin? Are you in Miami? Like, where? What do you need? But from that OEM component of that burner kit, if that OEM person came to us and said, Hey, we have this one thing, it burns two different fuel sources, this is important, because your clients will now get the power of choice if they don’t have a plumbed gas line, a. Yeah, that’s okay. They can still have the same skew, which makes it easier on you to fulfill your orders, because it’s, it’s built into the same unit. If they need to clear the pool deck, if they entertain a lot, this thing can be moved because there’s no plumbed gas line. So there’s a lot of things. Oh, by the way, it’s XYZ type of stainless steel, and that means it won’t rust. So you can sell it to your coastal hotels. You can sell in a coastal environment, like kind of starting to bridge those pieces between the product features and then why I care about it and how it helps my business. And so once I had the completed fire pit, you know, I would tell a hotel owner, Mr. Owner, this is going to be a marketable amenity feature. You’re going to be able to advertise it on your website. It’s going to be a place for guests to gather. Speaking of community, people are going to hang out at the fire pit. Oh, and now we can start to use this as a way to overcome objections. Yeah, that fuel cost. Don’t worry about it. It’s about X dollars an hour, but you’re going to pay for that in the first round of drinks when people sit around this fire pit and stay on your hotel because they’re buying booze around your fire pit, like just kind of giving the vision helps them essentially sell on your behalf, if you’re not in the room and in B to B environments, we all know this. We usually don’t always have a seat at the table with the decision maker. So you need to use everything in your arsenal, whether it’s program selling or more storytelling and product benefits to help equip that person to sell when we don’t have a seat at the table.

Damon Pistulka  21:28

Man, that was. Man, just Sara, drop the mic right there. Man, you are absolutely on fire. Pun intended, you know, so I I’m going to throw in on top of it. Let me throw my SEO hat on for a second because So now on Shark Tank. Barbara Cochran always says these, you know, save me money. Make me money, make me prettier, and I’ll invest in your company. Save me money. Make me money, make me prettier. And so the thing is, I love what you’re saying, sir. For the B to B space, make me money, save me money. And then in that consumer space, a make me prettier, make my deck prettier. Or, you know, a movie that I can watch my family tonight. You know, whatever that you know. Our friend John, selling memories, you know, like selling that better experience. Damon, I’m going to go there for a second. So Sarah low, pop quiz, you coffee drinker, right? We’re talking about Starbucks, talking about coffee have you? Have you ever you know that little cardboard thing that goes around the cup. You know what I’m talking coffee collar, the coffee I’ve never heard that term, the coffee collar. You know what it’s called? No, you’re calling the coffee. You know there’s an actual term for it. Do you know what that term is? Damon, you remember the term is, I’ve heard it before. It is called a zarf, Z, A, R, F, zarf, the guy that founded it. I wish the goodness gracious it was me that founded it. Jay Sorenson, founded in 1991 made a gazillion dollar selling a fraction of a penny piece of cardboard. He called it the Java jacket. Oh, so. So my point is to what you’re saying is so time, so often in a B2B space, we’re so close. If I was like, Hey, Sarah, we’re going to make these little coffee collar things, blah, blah, blah, and we’re going to call them a zarf. And all of our customers know that they’re a zarf. So when they go to google it, they’re going to google zarf, and you’re going to Curt. There’s nobody on the planet that knows the word zaf. They’re thinking, I don’t want to burn my fingers today, but as owners, we’re thinking Java jacket. We’re thinking, zarf, so I love what you’re saying, because we’re so focused on the BTUs and all the product features, all the customers thinking, I just don’t want to burn my fingers. I have my brother in law’s coming over, who drives me crazy. I’m gonna impress him with my new fire pit. You know, like, these are, these are, this is what they’re thinking. And so from an SEO standpoint, from a marketing standpoint. I love the direction you’re going. Yeah, keep it, keep it going, please. Well,

Sara Murray  23:44

and I think you made a really good point to Curt on the naming convention and, like, make it easier. Make it make me money. Save me money. Make me pretty I used to call it make me money. Save me money. Make it easy. And that’s where we talk about drop shipping, single point of contact. That’s where some of those program messaging. But you know this is all good to sit with it and brains dump and put together your package. But you need your teammates to be able to effectively communicate it, too. And so that might be a good segue, Kirk, into Curt, into these four steps where I suggest you brain dump every product feature that you can think of, or excuse me, every program feature. So we just listed off a ton on this episode, if you want to re watch, you know, warranty, yeah, drop shipping website, single point of contact, uh, quick ship in stock, service plans, etc, like drop, drop all those in because your competitors probably aren’t having those same conversations up front. That might be at the end. But one of the ways you differentiate is you bring this up earlier on in the conversation. So that’s step one. Is just brain dump all those program benefits you can think of. Then step two would be, now you can kind of lay out your product features, like the resolution, like the processor, like the, you know, fuel type for the fire. Hit burner. But you need to take it one step further and be like, Why Does anyone care about this? Why does having seven different resolutions in one thing? Like, who cares about this? Um, you know, why would somebody care? Why is it important to them? So I think that’s the like, that’s the piece people miss. Is sure you have all these different features. But why would anyone care? And then the third step is to think about all the different people who are going to interact with the product. And make sure, if you’re an OEM component supplier, you’re thinking about the end user. So maybe you’re selling the burner kit for the fire pit, not the whole fire pit, but that homeowner who’s going to interact with that fire pit. They you know, sometimes they’re not always the decision maker, like in a hotel environment, the guest didn’t pick that fire pit for that pool deck, but they’re still going to interact with it. So lay out all your different stakeholders. Who’s the decision maker, who’s the procurement person, who specifies it, who, who are your partners that are you’re going to build it together. Who’s the end user going to use it? And then I would almost recommend you just lay it out almost in like column format, and then start to match which product features these people care about, and you’ll start to find some themes, because the owner is going to care about something much different than the procurement guy. He might care a lot more about drop shipping or flat rate shipping versus the end user. But then what I would recommend in your marketing, your SEO, your communications with your clients. Just make it very literal. Like, why does this matter to you, Mr. Client? Why does this matter to you prospect? How is this going to impact your business model? And just make it very literal. But now you have different pivot points so you can navigate those conversations with whoever you do have a seat at the audience with, and then you’re giving them tools to go sell on your behalf when you’re not in the room. That’s kind of a default. I’ll repeat. The four steps, brand up all the product program benefits, then lay out the product features and then dial in. Why Does anyone care about these product features? Then think of your different stakeholders who interact with your product or service, and then match them into each appropriate column. Who cares about what? Yeah,

Damon Pistulka  27:06

phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal. Sara. And one thing Damon that you and I love to preach and what Sarah is just completely elegantly laying out Sara. We use a line called like, how do you out teach the competition, you know? And what you just, I’m taking notes like, furiously right now, and what you just laid out is this, like, really breaking it down. Like, how are you educating each, each you know, different stakeholders, different targets, different personas, right through the entire process. And I love the most, and I’d love for you to dig in a little bit deeper about the why somebody cares. Okay, so say, you know, our friends out there that are listening, they’re like, Okay, man, I’m Sara. I’m really digging this. How you know, how do we get, how do we reach that person? Or how do we really know that we’re we’re portraying the right information for the to answer that. Why does that make sense? That question makes sense? No,

Sara Murray  27:57

yes. And I will tell you a Trojan horse I use all the time in my business or my clients when I so some of the things that I will do with the clients that I work with is go through all these messaging but we need to make sure that the messaging resonates, and does this matter to the people that we think it matters. So it is totally okay to ask people to look at what you’re building and give feedback on it. And this is so powerful for many reasons. No. Number one, you’re respecting their business model. I used to sell to architects. I am not an architect. You know, you think about the like, what is the like the healthcare industry, you’re selling to a doctor as a pharmaceutical rep, you are not a doctor, so it’s incorrect to assume you know everything about architecture. So if you’re able to really pivot it and say, Hey, I’m building out this messaging and these program benefits specific to architects, or specific to procurement suppliers, or specific to, you know, line men on the on the assembly line, like, what whoever that stakeholder is, would you be so kind to give me some feedback to see if I’m on track? And then sometimes the stuff doesn’t resonate. They’re like, we actually don’t care about this. Or once we start to realize it, we’re starting to realize people do care about it. You know, LED lighting, for example, a lighting designer and architect didn’t care about the serviceability at the beginning, but now LEDs have been in the market a long time. They’re nearing end of life, and then these lighting designers are getting calls saying, Hey, you expect a product that’s failing. So now the serviceability does matter to them, but it you don’t know unless you start to ask. And the more you ask and learn from the different stakeholders you work with, you’re going to, A, be more empowered to communicate to them better. B, they’re going to, most of the time, be appreciative that you took the time to care. And then C, it kind of serves as a Trojan horse to say, hey, tell me more about your solution. We might need it on this blah, blah blah application we’re working on. So it’s a really. Nice way to build out your messaging, but also approach it from a non salesy. Let me do a product deck and vomit all over for you, because that’s what everyone else is. Yeah.

Damon Pistulka  30:11

Well, I just, I just want to add, you know, for friends out there, man, I hope you know, this is a master class. This is just phenomenal. And Sarah, I just want to give you a little little shout out. Last time you were on the show, you gave, like, a whole jam session on, like, how to prep for a trade show. I was actually going to a trade show. Like, three weeks later, I took furious notes. And like you, the advice you gave me was absolutely priceless. As a matter of fact, I probably owe you lunch, dinner or I owe you something. But so again, like this information is priceless. Would I’d love to dig in and look, we’ve got some more time. What I’d love to dig in a little bit further. How about some tips, advice? So say, maybe somebody’s out there. I love the Trojan horse. I’d love for you to explain Trojan horse a little further. So I met you with two questions, sure, Trojan horse a little further. Number one. Number two, say there’s a small company, small manufacturer, little bit introverted, you know, maybe they have small number of clients, but they’re like, Man, how do I add? How do I how do I reach out to my client? How do I get information? They’re a lot more giving with information than you realize. But so talk about the Trojan horse. Please. Just explain what you I love that line, yeah. And take a little bit further. What are some tips, strategies and how can we retract that helpful information from our ideal customers to target other customers?

Sara Murray  31:25

Perfect. Well, I’m not a history buff, so I feel like Damon might actually know the actual story of the Trojan horse thing. I think it was the Greeks. I want to like Bucha, nothing like that. They needed the soldiers to get into a palace or something, and they put this wooden horse as a gift, and then all the soldiers were hidden inside. So if you can find different vehicles to connect with your client, and I know Bob woods from social sales link is on here. Hi Bob. I learned a lot of stuff from from the social sales link team too on the way to do this digitally. So I’d recommend you check out their platform too, because it’s a lot of, how can you add value to other people? That’s the biggest thing, is adding value. And so then the Trojan horse comes in where, hey, I’m putting together this panel discussion for an industry event, and I can’t get in with this person I really want to get into. They never respond to my emails. They never want to take my meetings. They ignore all my app you know, requests for projects. Well, I’m going to put together this panel discussion, and I need an expert in this category. Hey, so and so, would you consider being my panel expert on this event that I’m putting together? You get Remo so much faster because I’m helping them in their business model. In this case, I’m elevating them from a standpoint in the way that I can. This isn’t a fit for everyone, but you just have to start thinking about, how are you adding value to different people? And that could be getting their expertise and then promoting it on your platforms or your areas. So if you have, if you’re a small manufacturing client, just like you’re saying Curt, maybe look at what was a project that went really well, and can your client potentially provide a case study, and in that case study, and one of the ways to do this is sometimes we have people who ask for discounts or something special, or we go above and beyond. And when I was building my business, I had opportunities to speak, but they were at no charge. They Were Free speaking events. I didn’t do anything for free. I said, Well, my company will sponsor 100% of this in exchange for I want to use you as a case study. Is that okay? And almost everyone says, yes. So there’s ways you can start to be creative by getting this marketing information, and then I would have them use that as like, Hey, this is a similar end user client as yours. Here’s the way that we partnered with them, and here’s the results. Would this be a value to you to learn more, so you just have to start thinking of creative ways to add value, and if you could keep the business model, lens on it. What does that person care about to help their business? It becomes a lot easier to ask for stuff. And that’s kind of where you start to get this, this circle and, like, cycle of reciprocity, right? Yeah, there’s a little all over the place

Damon Pistulka  34:17

that’s awesome, though it’s awesome. I mean, because you’re, you’re talking about, you know, how you really under thinking about adding value to the people you’re trying to build relationships with. It’s always a great way. I mean, Curt and I talk about a lot when we’re talking with people about live streaming, because, listen, that’s one of the ways that he and I can add value to people is is to help their message get out through live streaming. And it really like you’re saying a panel discussion, helping on a study of some sort. You know, the there’s tons of ways that you can help people in your industry, people in your community, that you want to connect. With, get further their ambitions. Yeah, I, you know, go through that process. I think, like, what Sarah’s dropping here is, like, just pure gold, yeah, this is a different or unique concept, you know, like Sarah, you know you, I know you do podcasting. You know we’ve, we’re friends through our mutual buddy, Tony, who does podcasting, Damon, we have our live stream show. What a great way to reach out to that, that decision maker, that you can’t crack the code, can’t get a foot in the door with what Sarah saying, Hey, I’m doing this thing, or I have a panel, or I have a situation that I need subject matter expertise. And guess what? You’re the smartest person in the room. I would love to have you participate. It’s such a different ask than like, Hey, will you buy my product?

Sara Murray  35:44

Right? I’m building an ebook. I’m putting together a webinar, and we’d love to include a quote from you. Can I interview you for 15 minutes? I mean, there’s so many ways to, like, pull this thread, and I think it’s the way to stand out from the noise too. Because, yeah, everyone’s,

Damon Pistulka  36:02

everyone wants, hey, you got 15 minutes for me to product vomit on you? Hey, you got 15 minutes? I can do it in five minutes. I can product vomit for five minutes. Maybe, you know, that’s, that’s really, that’s not much of a, that’s not much of an approach, yeah, yeah.

Sara Murray  36:16

And everyone’s doing it. So it’s like, just stop puking on people. And you can differentiate,

Damon Pistulka  36:20

yeah, that’s right. Hey, couple comments. Bob drops. Hey, perfection. Sara, he says that, and then someone else said, Love the tip. Sarah, very insightful. Lots of valuable takeaways that are easy to implement right away. I agree 100% here. So it’s yeah, the getting away from the I mean, and like you said, too, these are things that actually help you, help them and then get those relationships started, and you will stand out, because you’re not just throwing the product vomit out there. Yeah, couple more comments here. Oh, man, right? Frank, product vomit. Love that. And then this is good. No, show up and throw up. I like that.

Sara Murray  37:09

I’ve also heard of the term pitch slapping. Yep, right, yeah.

Damon Pistulka  37:14

Pitch slapping and Bob says anyone can ask for someone to buy the effective salesperson, ask for knowledge. That’s a that’s gold, right there. Anyone can ask for someone to buy the effective salesperson ask for knowledge. Whoo, that one you gotta think about, yeah,

Sara Murray  37:34

but, you know, it’s kind of funny once you ask for that knowledge, like I worked with an architect and they unintentionally approved a thermostat that wasn’t mine, and I didn’t know the process. For once, something was approved. What do you do? So I just said, Hey, I haven’t encountered this before. Can you walk me through the steps? And so she did. And then afterwards, I said, Okay, so is there anything you need for me to implement that process that I was able to ask for them to switch it over to my product? But it came from a lot different approach of me, fact gathering and wanting to understand it more better service other people in the community, in that same field, and everyone, I think, is happy to help, if there’s reciprocity. I think, as a general rule, people want to help each other, because it helps the industry grow. It helps people evolve. It’s like, it’s just, I think it’s the best part about business is it gives you a creative like vehicle for human, human interaction, right, right? You

Damon Pistulka  38:27

know, takeaways. You know, being that goal giver, being, you know, we’ve talked about fierce educating and just, you know, going, you know, just really dedicating yourself to, you know, building the relationship. We’ve talked about community, all those things. Couple more comments here. Dave, yeah, comment Mark. Mark drops it. Or, as Larry Levine asked, Are you a salesperson or a sales professional? And that’s great question to be asking, because that very relevant. Bob, I think they’ll make that into a t shirt. I did have to write that down that no show up and throw up. I mean, I’m going to have to use that. I’m sorry, yeah. Do you put that in there? We

Sara Murray  39:05

ate a lot of candy. It’s cool to talk about. Yeah,

Damon Pistulka  39:09

awesome.

Curt Anderson  39:09

So sir, as we start winding down, what are some other word parting thoughts, words of wisdom that you want to share in that B2B space is, is, you know, you’re just dropping all sorts of amazing tips and strategies for folks. You know, one thing I want to add is, first off, you know, stop by Sarah’s website, because she has tons of information, tons of education. She does workshops, webinars, you name it. She does it, prospecting on purpose. She does it all. She’s one of the funniest human beings that I’ve ever met. We just, she’s just such a dear friend. We love having her on, sir, what are some parting thoughts, words of wisdom that you’d love to share with folks today?

Sara Murray  39:45

Yeah, no, I’m so appreciative of the two of you. I like your friendship. I love that you support my business too. You have all these emotional bank account deposits with me, so I’ll do anything for you. Um, that’s kind of how it works. But I think the biggest takeaway is. Is, I call it in my workshops, I call it it’s an acronym that stands for A, B, A, V, always be adding value. And this is not, I think this is the what separates the varsity team from everyone else. Is any situation you approach you’re thinking, how can I add value to that person? And it’s not this particular prospect, it’s any person you interact with. Hey, this person’s holding a bunch of stuff. Let me open the door for them, right? Like it’s every time. It just has to be ingrained in how you approach the world, because there’s been so many times, you know, in my professional career, where I meet someone and they have a business that has nothing to do with what I do. They would never be a potential client. But I say, hey, you know, there’s other company I saw and they do something similar, and this was a kind of creative way. Would you be open to me sharing how they ran that? Like, just find these different ways to add value wherever you go, because it always pull, you know, comes back tenfold. And if you come from this place of like, service and always adding value, then it’s a lot easier to ask for things when you need help. And so you’re not doing it, you know, sneakily, like one day and three years from now, I’m going to need to call you for a favor. You’re doing it because that’s just part of your mindset and how you show up, and that’s really what differentiates varsity team versus everyone

Damon Pistulka  41:20

else. That’s your MO, and I’m sorry to do this, you shared a wonderful story last time you were on if I’m not mistaken, there was a receptionist and you started chit chatting with her guy. I have this right? And was it a book? Was it are you talking? Oh, yeah.

Sara Murray  41:33

We talk all about adding value, adding value. Oh, we also talk about the importance of listening a lot. One of my favorite podcast episodes I’ve ever done. It’s a big chunk of my training because I asked for feedback, and all these people were talking about this one slide I had on listening was so valuable to them. So now it’s like a seven minute part of my keynote is this concept of listening, but we leave a lot of money on the table for not listening, and the way that we start is having the mindset of ABA V always be adding value when you’re active listening. This is where you can start to take, you know, withdrawals from the bank. So I was, this was pre pandemic days, but I was cold calling architecture firms. And most architecture firms, their vendor presentations are booked out a year in Los Angeles. You know, it’s big. Everyone’s trying to get into these big firms. And so I walk in and I asked the receptionist, you know, excuse me, who does your lunch and learn I do, but we’re booked out a year. No problem. I’ll send you my information and I’ll see you next year. She says, Well, it may be a minute before I get back to you. I’m out of the office next week, and I’m listening, and I said, Oh, are you going anywhere? Fun? She says, I’m going to Hawaii with my husband. It’s our first time in Hawaii. So later that night, I send her my lunch and learn description, and then I send her a separate email, and I just said, Hey, I don’t know if you’re a reader, but here’s two books that are historical fiction that take place in the in Hawaii. You might like them. And I got an email back from her that night, and I was on the Lunch and Learn calendar two months from that day, versus 12 months. So I got an extra 10 months of sales potential just because I asked her if she was going anywhere fun, and I sent her some. You know, it doesn’t have to cost any money. I think that’s the thing is, it doesn’t have to cost money. Just be a real human and always be adding value. And then you start to reap the results.

Damon Pistulka  43:20

Gold. Absolutely gold. Man. Just alright. Sarah, drop the mic. Absolutely love it. Damon, we’ve got one more comment. Yeah, we do. And someone that asked, sorry I missed this part, what’s the name of your podcast? Sarah, oh,

Sara Murray  43:32

it’s called prospecting on purpose 97 and the guest is the general manager of the yamava Casino. They welcome 14 million guests every year, second only to Disneyland. And he and I spoke about how to create great company culture. So there’s guest episodes, there’s solo episodes, but yeah, we’re on the countdown to 100 prospecting on purpose. Nice, awesome.

Curt Anderson  43:57

Well, Sarah, I want to give a huge shout out. Big. Thank you to you for taking time out your busy schedule to join us and so man, and how about everybody in the chat box today? Damon, just, you know, totally appreciate the comments. You’ve been hanging out with us for however long we’ve been chatting. So how about a big round of applause for the one the only our dear, esteemed friend here, Sara Murray, for just absolutely crushing it today. Master class on how building relationships, really prospecting on purpose and just taking your business to the varsity level. That is a great line.

44:28

Yes. Damon,

Curt Anderson  44:31

why don’t you take it away? Man,

Damon Pistulka  44:33

I will do that. I want to say one thing. I’ve got a couple more comments here. We got Mark Bregman, he said, Make admins your advocate. They are not the enemy. Now I’m going to tell you that is gold as well, because and Sara, you’re had a great you had a great example of just being human with people. I can’t tell you in your experience hearing that from you, my experience is just talk to them. I mean. So many times you see this, a salesperson goes into a big company and they’re going to sit down, and they go sit down, and they do their thing. How much more can you learn if that person’s not jamming on the phone and other side, just ask them about what’s going on. What do you like about working here? What’s what’s happening today? Fun and and just talk to people and get to know them. Because, like you said it bought you 10 months on the schedule.

Sara Murray  45:23

Just be real. Be memorable. I did all my Zoom calls yesterday in my blockbuster uniform. No shame, not with small people either. I’m like, yeah, no,

Damon Pistulka  45:33

no, sir, when you did, did you have the gas handle, by the way, did you have the gas handle with you to

Sara Murray  45:37

be my next prop?

Damon Pistulka  45:40

Yeah, yes. And then to another comment, Bob said he was on your podcast earlier this year, and it was a great one. And someone else said, I don’t know if it’s Kyla. I was looking at the the other comments before Kyla and Mark Roach both left comments earlier, and who didn’t show us their names, but this was very informative. Thank you. And then Raul said it was nice to meet all the new members. Thank you.

Sara Murray  46:05

Thanks so much for having me. It was so fun. Always

Damon Pistulka  46:09

we are go, go, Sarah, you’re going to have to come back again. You know that we can’t. We cannot, not have you come back again, because it’s so great every time you’re on here, learning so much your experience in selling B to B and just just the practical we’re not hearing, go off and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s like, this is how you do it, human and effective. Thank you, yeah, and I can speak firsthand. Man, her tips are absolutely priceless. Take them if you miss anything, go back. Hit the replay button. Catch it. Over the weekend when you’re out walking the dog, whatever you’re doing, eating, eating Halloween candy. But Damon, as we’d like to close out, just go out and be someone’s inspiration, just like our dear friend Sarah was today, and you’re all going to make the world a better place. So we will close out. And so Damon, we’ll be back here next week. I think. Yes, we will. Yes, we will. I want to thank everyone in the chat today, we had Mark and Bob and Raul and uzman And Kyla and mark. And I already said Mark a couple times through two marks actually today that was, that was we got to make, make sure we get that right. But thanks so much for being here, and if you got in late, like we say. But today, you really need to go back to the beginning. Listen to what Sarah says, because if you want to understand some real practical tips to really helping your sales effectiveness go through the roof. Do that also. Check out Sarah’s podcast prospecting. On purpose. She’s dropping tons more great information there. Thanks everyone for being here with us today on the manufacturing e commerce success, we’ll be back again next week. Have a great weekend. You.