Building a Dynamic Personal Brand with Cher Jones

Curt Anderson  00:00

Hey, good morning. Good afternoon. Hello, happy Monday. Damon. How are you? Dude?

Damon Pistulka  00:05

Doing great Curt and ready for the show.

Curt Anderson  00:07

Oh my goodness. How was your weekend?

Damon Pistulka  00:09

Yeah, it was awesome.

Curt Anderson  00:10

It was awesome. Yep. All right. Did you rest up for this one?

Damon Pistulka  00:14

I did.

Curt Anderson  00:15

I warned you. Right. I want you to do right because you’re gonna need I hope you stretched out a little yoga this morning. So, bodies. Man, I am just honored. What a privileged interview to introduce, Cher Jones cher. Happy Monday. How are you? I

Cher Jones  00:29

am excited to be here. I mean, come on, you guys rested up ready to go. I’m ready because I rested up ready to go because I knew what I knew what to expect. So today is a good day. And I’m excited to be here.

Curt Anderson  00:40

Well, let’s dive in. And so socially active, we’re going to talk about your brand at work and just all sorts of exciting things. Play drop a note in the chat box. Let us know that you’re out there and you absolutely want to follow connect with Cher she just puts out just in just crazy content. Just so good. Sure. We’ve got a lot to cover. You have tons of tips on branding and how to help folks elevate. But before we go there, I have one question before we start, are you ready to share your weekend share how

Cher Jones  01:11

it was really good, although too much rain, but I binged the second season of Halo. So it’s all yesterday, so I could

Curt Anderson  01:20

knock him right down? Well, hey, God bless you. How exciting. Is that? So alright, so then you’re gonna be ready for this question. Sure. Are you sitting down? Are you ready for Okay, there we go. All right. Sure. When you were a little girl growing up when you were a little girl growing up? Who was your hero? Who would you look up to? Who do you admire who you’ve got a wonderful smile going? Who I know you’ve got somebody who is? Okay,

Cher Jones  01:43

so it was Barbara Walters and John Stossel from 2020. Way back in the days. I want it to be on television. And also Kermit the Frog reporting. i That was me. I had my little reporter my little recorder walking around. And that was who it was. I really wanted to be Barbara Walters. Wow,

02:03

that’s awesome. Wow. Okay.

Curt Anderson  02:06

So anybody under the age of what, maybe 40? Do we have to explain who Barbara Walters is? I don’t know. I’m not sure if

Cher Jones  02:11

it’s possible, because you can add 10 to that you almost get me So

Curt Anderson  02:16

Barbara Walters was just legendary journalist for decades upon decades. So that is a great one. And now How coincidental share you know, like so apparently you’re a muppet fan. Is that correct? That’s correct. So like you remember the two old guys. And

Cher Jones  02:32

those two? Yes. Yes. Those two?

Curt Anderson  02:38

Yeah. Yeah. So How perfect is

Cher Jones  02:43

our best life right now?

Curt Anderson  02:44

We’re channeling your inner Kermit and we’re doing Waldorf and Statler. And so we’re just we’re the two ornery dudes up in the balcony. Just being irritating. So that’s what we’re here for. So I love it. So sure, let’s go here. So love it. So journalism was in your blood DNA? Was Was it in your family like what what attracted you to journalism?

Cher Jones  03:07

It was something that my parents would pay for because they wouldn’t pay for me to be an actress. So I went to and I’m a good writer. But that was the thing that I could advocate for. Let me be in broadcast journalism. And I wanted to do auditions and all that good stuff to be on television. So that was the closest way in and it was a great way and

Curt Anderson  03:28

I absolutely love it. So eight we’ve got a friend here. Alan, from Al is in the house. Ellen. Ellen, you my friend. So thanks for joining us. japa note give a hello to share. And if you guys have any questions whatsoever about personal branding, this is definitely a place to do it. So it should go to college you dive into journalism that was early part of your career. What What was it like Barbara Walters what was about journalism that really sparked that passion for you?

Cher Jones  03:53

It was I wanted to I loved being on television. I love the the format of teaching. So that was another possible career direction for me was teaching and that Lights Camera Action. I never met a mic I didn’t like I was one of those kids who’s like pick me. I wonder when they’d asked for volunteers from the audience. I was running up to the front. So it was just something who I would say that something that’s just literally be embedded into my DNA. I grew up with three brothers no sisters. So I used to want to be a host of rap city, this show in Toronto and for for a network called MuchMusic. I also went into sports broadcasting. That was my first career out of school. I worked for the Raptors. I was a producer for the Pre and Post game show. So TV has always been in that space and I’ve done some on air TV stuff as well. So it’s just I love it. I really do and I guess now this has manifested into a different way. I’ve got like double cameras you know what I mean? Like Liz what I do, so I love Minute.

Curt Anderson  05:00

You don’t. And the thing is you, you know, for an introvert that you are how were you able I’m just kidding. So. So this was just a really good fit. So let’s sign in. So the social media world comes up. Let’s move fast forward up. Like, how about your let’s dive into your entrepreneurial journey? I believe you started 14 years ago,

Cher Jones  05:19

I did. Bracey, my first personal branding talk. Yeah, back in 2013, called 99 problems, but my brand name one, it is somewhere, I swear, it was actually inspired by Jay Z. I use Jay Z lyrics to talk about different aspects of personal branding. And it was like, I look back, and I’m like, you know, still green. But it was still brilliant. And I mean, at the end of the day, no one back then was talking about personal branding, it was reputation. There was like a few people kind of there a book or a time cover came out, you know, the brand of you. And that started that conversation. But that’s how long ago I’ve been, you know, I’m not new to this. I’m true to this. I’ve been here for a while. Right?

Curt Anderson  06:05

I know on your LinkedIn profile, you have not your first rodeo, of course. So you know, and again, guys, definitely follow up connect with Cher on LinkedIn, she puts out just crazy, wonderful, intentional content, and helping folks to build your brand. And you’re making a great point shirts, you know, with social media being new, you know, 2000s is Twitter thing, YouTube, you know, above? You know, prior to that, really, you know, it was difficult. How do you build your personal brand? Now with all these options, so let’s go from so talk about your entrepreneurial leap, let’s either talking to share of 2012. Or maybe, you know, if there’s an entrepreneur out there that wants to take that leap, yes, scary, exciting nerve, like, what were you What were you going through at that time?

Cher Jones  06:49

So there was always this intrapreneur entrepreneur in me at heart. So one of the things that I had to pivot in my career. So it was interesting, because as I look back at my career, I can see how I had to pivot and change my brand as I evolved, right. So it was evolving your brand. So I moved from journalism, into corporate communications and PR. And my last stint before getting into this full time entrepreneurial gig was working with the City of Toronto, and I was responsible for an entire divisions, communications, and you hit the nail on the head around social media, because it was that time between 2009 and 2013, where social media became a thing in politics, we’re seeing Obama had won the election. A lot of his, you know, a lot of his qualification of his of who he was, was because of social In Amplified his message. And then so we had an incredible mayor, who was also very prolific on Twitter, and this was new, like, if you were a mayor on Twitter, back in 2009 1011. That was a big thing. Yeah, yeah. And so one of the things that I noticed, and this is the whole so this is the entrepreneurial mindset at work, was the fact that a lot of people didn’t understand the professional side of leveraging social media, to in your communication strategy and your communications planning. So what I saw there was an opportunity for me to, to serve at work to help people that’s where I developed my first communications, our social media training program for all the communicators in the city, which were 135 at the time. And I began building a reputation for my knowledge in social media. So it was that personal branding piece, where it’s like, if you said social media, you said sure, Jones in the same sentence. And then my internal clients asked me to start speaking to youth or newcomers about using social media to get a job, and all that good stuff. And then what was happening is my internal clients started referring me externally. So it was like taking the leap to say here, I’m going to do this. And it allows me to do what I love in a way that I’m serving. But it also started a new trajectory, trajectory for me to go somewhere else. So that’s, and then at one point, it was like I was getting all these external offers from my internal clients telling me to go here, go there. And then I was like, Hey, maybe I can make a thing out of this. And then I jumped in their full, full full, like two feet on the ground. You know, I was 10 toes down right into this. So that’s kind of the abbreviated version.

Curt Anderson  09:20

Yeah. So and not even more, you know, demon lifetimes. We talked about, you know, the famous term, the accidental entrepreneur, you really were the intentional passionate, like, you were just full throttle right into this.

Cher Jones  09:33

Well, I grew up in an entrepreneurial family. So both my parents were hairdressers, they own four salons across Toronto, they so that’s all I knew. But it was interesting because they turned me off of entrepreneurship in the beginning because they’re like, you don’t get vacations. We don’t take vacations together. We don’t do this. We don’t do that. And it’s all that you don’t get benefits. You don’t do this, did it? So I was like, Okay, maybe I’ll go this direction. But then who I am my wiring. Yeah, me Long the path. Right?

Curt Anderson  10:01

Right. Yeah, absolutely love it. Damon, what do you get? What

Damon Pistulka  10:04

do you have? Well, that I mean, it’s listening to what your parents said. It’s so many parents have said that throughout the generations, they say, because they think they want better for their children, but they don’t realize that what they had was not that bad, or was really probably a good fit for their children in some cases. Exactly.

Cher Jones  10:21

Exactly. We really didn’t know that. And it’s just it was the perfect fit for who I am. Yeah,

Curt Anderson  10:27

yeah. fit your personality in. So a couple of things I love is hashtag just as share. And so you know, again, if you check out shares profile, you know, Hewlett Packard, I saw Blackberry, Lockheed Martin, really kind of who’s who list of companies that you’ve worked with. So you shared, you know, kind of those early stages. How did you land you know, so again, so if there’s a new entrepreneur out there, maybe they’re at a job, there’s certain side hustle like, hey, the side hustle started interfere with my job, I’m gonna leave my job. How talked about that transition? How did you land some of those major players, those household names? What did that look like? It

Cher Jones  11:03

was one having the brand that articulates your value for you. So one of the things because when people start to hear about you, you’re not in the room to have those conversations to advocate for yourself, right. So if you take the time if you’re intentional about giving people the language to talk about you, and letting them also see the proof. And this is what I do with a lot of my clients is helping them recognize how are they going to articulate their value in a way that someone will want to take them up on their value. And then not only are they doing that, Where’s the proof that proves what they say they can do says shows what they have done, and also showcases what they can do for that person looking at them. And that’s really important, because we do need to recognize how much one there’s a lot of competition out there. But if someone’s referring you, which is how a lot of those opportunities happen, to be honest, is just what happened is more and more people began to be in the room when someone brings up my name. And then you’ve got three people that you don’t even know your advocate that are saying, Oh, I heard about her, or Yeah, I’ve seen her speak. And then it just became that momentum. And the first but it wasn’t always like that the first time it was just people finding me. So I’ve had both sides where I’ve just been searched, someone found me. So for example, one of my earlier gigs was was with PokerStars. And they the the gentleman who had hired me for to go to get this Atlantis and Bahamas, full expenses paid because they have their annual poker star events out there to train their online team on their personal brands found me on LinkedIn, but there’s proof there. So what you need to do is create the proof so that someone can imagine you doing that for them. Nice.

Curt Anderson  12:57

Well, I think that’s a great thing about you, you know, found you I believe I Found You was on a LinkedIn live course. Right? You did a live you did a course on LinkedIn on LinkedIn courses on LinkedIn live, and I’ve just just thoroughly enjoyed it. You’re funny, you’re engaging, it was just you know, you’re you’re charismatic, at times, self deprecating, if I can say that, right, you’re just it just you thought you just, you have that natural ability, just making people feel like you. They’ve known you for years. And now if you go to your YouTube channel, dozens and dozens and dozens of videos, you’re a fierce educator, what and so entrepreneur, journalists, where did this education bug come from?

Cher Jones  13:36

That was something so it’s so funny how anybody can look at their, their trajectory, or even their their origin story. So I will always I was coaching gymnastics as a kid, I was a young person, I was always because I thought at one point is going to be a teacher. So I started to do the day camps. And I was one of those camp counselors all the time. And I was always teaching. So that was, and I think that there’s such a direct correlation between talking about something on air, letting people know about things and actually teaching and learning what you know, and also being very innovative in your approach. So the first time I ever went, for example, went live was with this thing called Google Hangouts On Air. And we’re talking way back. 2013 2014 is when I went live for the first time because I was like, Oh, wait, I can take broadcasting and, and have TV on my own terms. And I can do this for myself. And then immediately I started teaching others what I was doing, because people were asking, so it’s just like a natural extension. And I think that it just sharpens your skill. When you can teach something. That means that you know something, and it makes you learn it even more. Yeah,

Curt Anderson  14:50

and just when you teach what you preach, it just gives you so much strain. Right? And so now it’s not theory it’s not well, I heard or I think this might work. gotta read this in a book because I have no like, this is what I do. I’m showing you what’s right.

Cher Jones  15:06

That’s exactly. Well,

Curt Anderson  15:08

I love. So let’s type in you. So you do corporate training, keynote speaking. And all, I have coach all sorts of wonderful, amazing things. You have a bunch of great titles of workshops that I would love. So maybe if you just give us like a little snippet, but boy, anybody out there wants to take more, you’d got to connect with share and just, you know, bring her to your workshop, hire her for one of your keynotes. But you’ve got one it’s called, How do you upgrade your brand? And change your life? Yes, sir. curious minds would love to know, I want to change my life. How do we do that. So

Cher Jones  15:39

it’s interesting with when you upgrade your brand, you can literally open up new new doors that did not exist there before. And you get access to new people, or the same people when you do the work and upgrade your brand, especially at work, the same people who didn’t see you with that lens that you have now focused on yourself, as far as your experience and expertise when you get people all of a sudden saying, I didn’t know you could do that. I didn’t know you had experience in that. And all of a sudden, they’re saying, Hey, would you like to do be a part of this task force? Would you like to be a part of this initiative? Would you like to be part of this launch team? Would you like to be a part of this project development or product development team, because they didn’t know you had that experience. So your brand, when you are intentional about advocating for your skills, your knowledge, your expertise, it can literally change your life, it will open doors for you. People only know what they know. And oftentimes they don’t know a lot. So it is your job to change that. So in the talk, I talk about the different upgrades that you can make with your personal brand, so that you can literally change your life if you do these five upgrades. So they go through.

Curt Anderson  16:52

So well. That’s fantastic. Hey, Amy drops a note here. So Amy, happy Monday, Good afternoon from Syracuse, New York loving everything shares same. Thank you, Amy. That means we are also loving it just as well. Ya know, in the chat box, let us know that you’re here. If you have any questions about personal branding, this is definitely the place to do it. Share. This is where I’m dying. You know, I’ve been just so excited to ask you, whether when early in your career, or when you’re working with your clients, what Daymond I hear a lot about that resistance factor, not even just from maybe your client, but from supervisors hire, you know, internal, right? Did you face any resistance in your career and be how do you how do you coach your clients through maybe kind of that awkwardness of getting through that that, you know, the personal branding power of a corporate client of yours, there’s still

Cher Jones  17:42

a lot of resistance. But it comes with the educating around the resistance. So one of the things that especially when I’m working with leaders, who are now stepping out into their personal brand, and building a personal brand at work for work, so that’s really my sweet spot. So how does their their brand support their role? How to support their career? And how do they how does their brand, make them? Look? How, how did they show up as an employee advocate, right? We want them to be solid in those three areas, because it’s just a beautiful trifecta of awesomeness. But the one thing that I think it’s important that people do is understand the value behind personal branding, because people typically have this perspective, if they if they haven’t done any work into it. They have this Oh, it’s showing off. Oh, they’ll look at me, look at me, look what I’ve done. And it’s just like actually know if it’s done in the right way, because there’s a lot of bad examples of personal branding. So what companies need to be educated on is that when they are developing the personal brands of their company that become Daniel proves he has a book called key person of influence. And it’s all about how these people are influencing their major decisions. Do we want to work with this company? Do we want to work for this company? Is this account. So we’re seeing now talent decisions are input influenced by the personal brands of the company, we, even internally, that trust that is built where cross functional teams are working together, or vendor and partner relationships are built on personal brands, especially when they’re brand new. So there’s different things that companies need to recognize as well as the influence in the industry that they’re in because they have these specific people who are showing up as industry experts. And then as well one thing that I would recommend that every person who is working on their personal brand they are as long as they’re able to articulate back what it is they’re doing in their performance planner to say, these are the goals, these are the things that I am doing so that I can get this. So whether it’s building trust, building relationships with a specific area of the industry, clients, whatever, when people know the why, because again, people have that a lot of people still have that, oh, it’s just showing off. But when you can articulate the intention and the strategy behind it, you will still get some pushback, because some people, what you’re doing is, oh, you’re doing too much, or they’re gonna expect me to do all that, you know, and all of those kinds of questions come into play. But it’s, it’s really, it’s an education piece. But when people see it, yeah, you and the other end have been kind of speaking a little bit, all over the place, but connected, but sometimes companies are afraid to build the brands of their personal brands at their company, because they’re like, Oh, well, they’re just gonna get poached. Or they can attract people to work for your company. They can attract new sales, they can attract investors, they can attract a company or conferences saying, hey, we want that person speak on behalf of your company. So yes, they could get poached. Or if it’s a great company work from why would they get poached? Why would

Damon Pistulka  21:18

they want to leave? Yes, yeah. Yeah, great point. Yeah, I think that, you know, that is a a, still a held concern by a lot of people is, you know, building that brand, or even that brand being tied to that person. Yes, that part of the brand being tied to that person. But it really does speak to what you’re saying there is, you got to make it a good place to work. Yes, good culture. And then those people when they’re building the brands, they’re going to be around to promote that brand for a long time.

Cher Jones  21:48

Exactly. And you don’t want just one because that’s a risk. Yeah, yeah.

Damon Pistulka  21:53

Yeah.

Curt Anderson  21:54

So I so you know, from the corporate level, or even a small company, and, you know, as we went live, we were chatting before you knows, for our show, we’re targeting small manufacturers. Yeah. It’s just, it’s, it’s, you know, our one of our taglines is how do you stop being the best kept secret, right? And what a great way to have, you know, to, you know, institute a culture to encourage those folks to be that voice to be that message be the face, you know, get that out there. Let’s go here, I would love to talk about you do a great job talking about the triple threat. Yes, please explain to folks share what on earth is a triple threat.

Cher Jones  22:28

So it’s interesting, because I kind of touched on it before, it’s that Triple Threat where your brand is supporting you right now in your job, meaning that you’ve connected the dots between the stuff that you’ve got to get accomplished. And the fact that your brand can support you in accomplishing those goals, whether it’s relationships, trust, credibility, getting into different places. So that’s the one thing that supports you in your role. Next thing, it’s supporting your what’s next, it’s supporting your career, so that you are already in your your, you’re already making moves for your next and whether that career, it doesn’t necessarily mean a, you’re the next move up. It could also mean I want to become a thought leader in this space, I want to work, I want to open up the companies that I work for, maybe I’m in this sector, and I want to also show my knowledge and expertise so that I can transition or expand into another sector. So it’s about that career move that you’re making. Or perhaps it is, I want to be a CIO or CFO or whoever, you know, this, whoever CTO wherever you want to be, my brand needs to support my next on that. Or there’s things that you just want to do, right. So that piece around the triple threat is important. And it also strengthens the company brand. So supports your role, build your career. And then also, again, what we’re talking about before is how are you showing up for the company? How are you representing this matters more than ever before because it’s attracting talent, it’s attracting investors, it’s attracting clients, it’s attracting the industry, and also the gatekeepers in the industry who could be featuring your company because of the individual brands on podcasts on shows like this, because they are someone that you would want to have you on your show, which then amplifies that message

Curt Anderson  24:34

of fierce competitive advantage that a small company like this doesn’t have to be a big corporate warrior you know, again, you’ve worked with you know, major companies Lockheed Martin Martin HP Blackberry, but I mean this can be for ABC, you know, Acme manufacturer, or you know, retail, you know, whatever, but there’s just so much opportunity here to put yourself out there. Again, just kind of recap you know, that Triple Threat supports roles, builds your your career and stuff lengthens that brand experience. Yeah, yes.

Cher Jones  25:02

And I’ve worked with smaller businesses and and even in the manufacturing space, I worked in a conveyor belt, and for conveyor belt manufacturer in Kingsville, Ontario. And he was able to leverage his brand to, again, track more attract more incredible employees because he has a culture about his company. And then also close large deals over time by starting the conversation on platforms like LinkedIn, and then building from there. So it’s just that trust, that credibility, that visibility that you wouldn’t otherwise get if you’re not building your personal brand.

Curt Anderson  25:39

Well, I love it. And we won’t share numbers. But you, you know, you probably shared that you helped the company close a Monster Monster deal, because of this process and what they’re doing. And again, if they don’t do that, if they don’t just raise their hand or put themselves out there. It just been they found somebody else like like, you’re just you’re you’re just simply not in the game, you’re not on the playing field.

Cher Jones  26:01

So Curt, one of the things I like to remind people of, sometimes it’s not that they didn’t think you could do the job. It’s that they didn’t remember that you could not out there, right? So they’re the brand. This is the thing I say all the time in all my talks, the brand new the wheel gets the grease. Yeah. Right. Boom. Mic.

Curt Anderson  26:22

Still Sure. You know what, on our little program, we have got the mic moments, but then when it’s really good, we call them moments of silence. So we’re going to take a moment of silence and just like let that resonate. Yeah, thank you. We’re gonna like, can you say that again? What do you call it?

Cher Jones  26:35

The branded wheel gets the grease. Granted,

Curt Anderson  26:39

we get the grease. I love it. Oh, that was alright. That was phenomenal. Let’s dive I want to go back to your workshops, you have another title that really caught my attention. communicate your value on demand. Yes. curious minds would love to know, please share? What does that mean?

Cher Jones  26:58

Oh, I’m so glad you asked about this one. Because I think it’s really important. So oftentimes, when we think about personal branding, especially now, especially on platforms like LinkedIn, it gets very hyper focused on LinkedIn, and building your brand on LinkedIn. Well, that is a component of branding for most professionals. They’re not trying to be the LinkedIn superstars that we are, I’m kidding. But they’re not trying to be on LinkedIn all day, creating content all day, every day on LinkedIn. One of the things that the average successful professional and leader wants to do is to be able to effectively articulate their value to the right audience in the right setting, or in the right moment. So sometimes it is on LinkedIn. But sometimes being able to articulate your value on demand is what happens when you have to introduce yourself in the group, in front of people online in a zoom call, how are you ensuring that when you are introducing yourself, you’re doing it in such a way that people get what you do, right? They have these aha moments like I know what you do, I know how you can help me. And I want to know more. So that is that is helping people have developed more of a dynamic elevator pitch, because I think that the elevator pitch in its true sense of, you know, you have this one script that you learn and you learn really well. I think it just doesn’t, it doesn’t capture your ability to value shift, right, you’ve got to be able to shift for the different audiences that you’re in front of, because some people don’t care about that one pitch that you have that may work great for, you know, a breakfast meeting and network breaking breakfast meeting, but it doesn’t work great for colleagues in the industry, because they don’t care. So that’s what I do is basically I help them develop their, their, the way they articulate their value in their about section, face to face, and giving that that ability to, to to value shift, so that they know up and down depend, they can shift up and down on the details, depending on who they’re talking to, and know what that value mean, what value is to that audience,

Curt Anderson  29:11

right? Understanding your audience. Speaking of audience, Amy says, so many sound bites here. I can’t I agree with you. 100%. Amy, I can’t keep up. Will there be a written transcript? Yes, absolutely. So we will have a transcript it is on b2b tell.com It will probably be up tomorrow catch a share. I will be living on my LinkedIn profiles on Damon’s LinkedIn profile strongly encouraged you will probably say this multiple times go back hit that rewind button and just like soak in all the brilliance that we’re just we’re getting there this is truly a masterclass Sure let’s go here. Client small manufacturers or you know whatever whoever it is out there and they’re just you know what shirt you had me at? Hello, I am all in like I get it. I’m bought in there no resistance here. Where do I start? What are like, do you have like a one on one or maybe some Baby steps, like, you know, you’re that Sherpa, you’re that guide. You’re at this this level, let’s say I’m down here, you know, my wife’s a preschool teacher, I’m done in preschool level, how do you help me? How do you How can you hold my hand and get my my party started, if

Cher Jones  30:13

you will, I love it, I have a very simple acronym that we all would recognize as a CRM. So typically, we think about customer relationship management software, right, which is really designed to help you stay and communicate, stay in touch with and communicate with your customers. Well, in this case, CRM is all about communicating your value, and your expertise. So the way that you have to do it in my methodology is first is you have to set the context. So when I say context, in a personal branding strategy, I want to start and this is interesting, because we’re always it’s all about your audience. It’s all about your audience. Yes, it is. But what do you want? I need to know what you want so that we can shift your messaging, which we’ll get to in a second. So what is it you want? Right? What is the context of your goals? who you’re talking to your audience? Right? So your goal is first, what is what is the goal that you want? This is all within context? Right? What is who are you talking to in order for you to achieve that goal? Right? And, and then as well, just when you have that, when you have that context of, of and what is it you’ve done, right? So that that context, and then the next piece is relevance. So you know what you want to achieve whatever that goal is, I want to close this many deals, I want to do this, I have context to who I am, and and who I’m talking to. Now, what’s relevant. And this is where you get into how you shift your brand from what I want to positioning it. So it’s what you want. And that relevance there is around what’s the problem that you’re solving, based off of the goal that you have. Right? So looking at your audience, what do they care about when you can speak problems? It’s literally like a dog whistle. Right? So if you understand your audience, and you start talking about their problems, or like, someone was talking about me, it’s literally that so if you know, the problems that you solve, that’s, and you’re able to articulate that that’s now you’ve become irrelevant. Now, what is it in the relevant stage, not only is it the problem, you also have to look at? Well, what also makes you relevant to them? Different AHA things. They’re like, they’re, they’re like little, their little like, title drops, name drops, title drops. So to some people, it’s really important that you mentioned what company or what industry, you need to know all those things that I can place you in the moment. So those are high things, right. So we’ve got the problems, the AHA, that will immediately make you irrelevant to me, right? And again, that goes back to that value shifting thing that some things, some, some pieces of value are more valuable to you, as opposed to somebody else. And then the other piece is, what about my history? That would also make you trust me? Right? So what have I done in the past? That would be like, Oh, wow, I can trust you to do this. So that’s that relevance piece. So once we’ve uncovered the context, your you know, the what you what you want, right, and the audience that can help you get there. And then we get into the relevance, how do you make yourself relevant to that, that audience so you can achieve your goals? By understanding their problems, understanding what’s relevant to them, and understanding why they can trust you through your history. Now we work on your message. And that’s just reframing depending on where we are and who we’re talking to. So we have all those pieces. So all that I know is, I got a little technical there. But again, start with what you want. What are your goals? Right and who is your audience now? What do they care about? So that you can you can achieve those goals now how do you position it that way? In your messaging, you package

Curt Anderson  34:18

another moment of silence share. Another moment of silence. Hey, we’ve got Trisha in the house here Trish. Happy Monday. Boy, this is just a pure masterclass, right.

Damon Pistulka  34:30

Yeah, right. Yeah, my arm is tired from writing. Yeah, I

Curt Anderson  34:33

know. I’ve got I’ve got two pages of notes here. Yes, you’re so alright. So brand new client, you take them so you walk them through that CRM. So what I absolutely love about this again, drop any questions, any comments in the chat box? What I love is you’re not getting into tactics. You’re not getting into a you should be on LinkedIn as you do LinkedIn live. I used to do video you should like you’re like what are your goals? What’s the what’s your what’s your street cred app, right? So your walk And through that process? Sure. Like, how about the aha moments? Could you share any aha moments that you see with your clients? Like you see, like the mind blowing? You know, like, can you share some of that?

Cher Jones  35:09

Yeah, so a lot of what happens, especially in the messaging space space, when we’re starting to shift how they should communicate their value. Normally, we’re taught to communicate our value by all the things that we’ve done. Right? No one cares until they know what you can do. And so you that’s why the starting when you’re actually starting your messaging, you’re starting with the problem. And you’re starting with how, who you help and how you help them, and what is it they accomplish, then you’re going to say, and here’s why I can help you. Because what you’re doing is you’re building credibility and trust, after they’ve already leaned in and said, hey, they’re talking about me. Right? So you have to walk them through this journey. Because if we just start saying, Oh, I’ve done this, I’ve done this I’ve worked with so and so I was like, how is that even? I don’t even care. Yeah, and then this scroll factor, like three second scroll factor, we’re scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, if you don’t, if you don’t capture my attention, and the number one way to do it is with a problem. That’s a dog whistle, I hear it if I had that problem, I’m listening. Right. So that’s the AHA. And then I think the best thing that my clients experience is the comfort when they’re able to articulate their value on demand, literally, by and feeling comfortable that no matter who they’re talking to, they’re able to communicate their value effectively. And and then having their value on demand literally, in their LinkedIn profiles, or wherever they’re being looked up. There’s more than just LinkedIn. And like that comfort of you know, what your backup is right there, your backup dancer, your LinkedIn profiles, like letting everybody know what you do. And it just makes you more effective. So I think that freedom and peace that comes with actually taking the time because what we think, oftentimes is like, for example, when you those who are who introduced themselves, really well. They didn’t wake up like that they practiced.

37:12

Right? Yeah.

Curt Anderson  37:13

Do you feel like you’re like, man, they made you feel like you’re just getting a coaching lesson, right? Yeah, yes. Okay. All right. So how much of it, I’m going totally off script night. And you and I didn’t even have a script. But I feel like, I feel like there’s two things that that’s really resonated with me, you know, following your content, following your course. You know, all these other things here is, you know, confidence in hope. Yes, confidence and hope. And what I love about your one workshop is like, change your life when I read that I was like, I don’t feel she’s under undervaluing that, you know, like, like, you’re, you’re bringing a transformation to your clients. Yes.

Cher Jones  37:51

Yes. So for example, when you’ve done all that messaging work, that’s when we start to get into the strategy, right? That’s when, if you think about so one, making sure that you have proof that profiles or the way that you introduce yourself, is on point like that is the most powerful introductions is your number one upgrade? Yep. Right? Absolutely. Your your second upgrade is really around the relationships that you have the people that can advocate for you. So are you are you in that space where you are giving them the language to advocate for you? So one is you’ve done the work on the language, but two, they’ve got to be able to advocate for you. And most people don’t have the language and then they’ll default to oh, you know, Kurt is awesome. That doesn’t sell you, Kurt. Yeah, it says you’re a great guy to hang out with. So it’s your job to get people language to talk about you, right. And then also those those relationships are working with your champion, your mentor or your amplifier. So you guys, for example, our amplifiers, you’re amplifying me into an entirely new audience, right. And you wouldn’t have chosen me if you didn’t see proof, which is the next piece, right? So that proof of, of my value, right? So proof of value, and they are, you’ve got to put that out there. That doesn’t mean you have to be a prolific content creator, if that’s not the path that you’re on. So most people are getting advice for for directions, they don’t even want to go, they’re getting standard. This is how you do it, you post five times a week, you spend 40 minutes every single day in the DMS and that works for some people if that’s the strategy to get them to X, Y and Z. But most people don’t need that strategy. Right? They need that. That level that can build their credibility and some visibility to create the opportunities so it’s really interesting but proof is a is another big one and then understanding things like your Easter eggs. So this is people who and this is such a powerful upgrade in your personal brand. So things that will give clues to who you are All right. So yeah, I mean, you can look behind me and see I’ve got roller skates and little things like, you know, like, you can see a little clearer when I go closer. But they, and then they get embedded into your work because Easter eggs are are those things where someone’s going to lean in and notice and remember you there are little aspects about your personality that you can embed into your personal brand. Like for example, I talked about 99 problems with my brand day one, I used hip hop to professionally articulate the value of personal branding. And it gives you an idea of what I like.

Curt Anderson  40:39

Exactly, and, and you did you know what great minds think alike? Because that was actually my next question. So you if I’m not if I haven’t correctly, you have another workshop, the scroll stopper and you just mentioned it right stopped? I was just going to ask you, does it stop the scroll? Does it require pick roller skates? I was just curious. I’m just teasing you just pointed out. But I know you’re super busy. And I know I could keep you here all day. Could you give us a like a little nugget on? What are some tips advice you have on that? Stop the scroll? You know, everybody’s so busy. But you really have a value message? How do you help your clients with stopping to scroll. So

Cher Jones  41:14

it’s interesting, even what I was talking about before around understanding your clients problem. That’s the dog whistle, right? It’s your hook. It’s if you especially if you are not going to be that regular person who’s constantly putting out content as a creator, you just are a professional who wants to share some content, is it something different? So one of the things is you’ve got to get people’s attention. And so one of the most important parts of being a scroll stopper is that that hook that and I know there’s like a lot of stuff about copywriting. But if if you can not be boring. So the most people who are not creators who know that they want to put some stuff out there, don’t start your posts with I was honored to be a part of this live stream. And Kurt, like that’s not who cares, right. But if you can start your, your post with something that’s going to capture my attention, so knowing who you’re writing to, and saying, you know, what be really interesting is, is if I pulled for example, a quote out of this conversation, and and then I started my post with that quote, and I picked the angle. And then I taught something, even if it’s just the quick takeaway, because I’m LinkedIn is quick, it’s quick, gotta have a hook. It doesn’t have to be the perfect copywriting hook. But you’ve got to start with something that I actually care about. And so that’s the way I so in my scroll stopper workshop, I work on picking your angle, so you know what angle you’re coming from, starting with something that is going to grab my attention, then inserting yourself because a lot of people don’t insert who they are into their posts with just an opinion, or an insight, and then give me some value teach me something. It’s not about you. It’s about them, even though you were presenting. So I could say, you know, the three things that we talked about on this session was this, this, this and that, now it becomes about them. Right? And I’m teaching them. And then here are my thoughts at the end. So it’s just one of those things where you are just giving people the permission to post but giving them a safe way that they they know that Oh, I can see why this works. It actually catches my own attention. So that’s what I do is just walk them through the process of doing that.

Damon Pistulka  43:38

That’s awesome. I mean, because you know, like you said earlier, we the scrolling is easy. The stopping the scroll is the hard part.

Cher Jones  43:47

Exactly, exactly. And one time when I love doing it most is when it’s at a an event and I do a scroll stopper workshop where they’re posting about the event that they’re at and understanding the different angles. One was great for the event promoter and then two is like everybody’s like, you just see this flood of great content coming out. Yeah. Awesome.

Curt Anderson  44:09

Awesome comments here. We got Tristan, and it all starts with you and Dale, what a compliment here share so so many good points here share. I can see why you are so successful. Yeah, Dale, I fully agree with that. Sir. A couple of things. As we start winding down. You have a new podcast out. Can you please share with our friends? Yes, Emily, any pets out there who are listening to your podcast?

Cher Jones  44:31

Okay, so my podcast is launching at in the middle of a short by the end of May. I’m just picking the last date. And it’s called your brand network. And it is all about building your brand at work for work. And so it’s all about if you are out there right now and you’re getting all this advice around personal branding and personal branding on LinkedIn. You’re like that’s not me. I need a more holistic look at how to build my brand. So it supports To me in my role, it builds my career and also makes the company brand look good as well. That’s what I’m going to be talking about. So it’s a really great complementary guide on how to do that. And that’s what I’ll be sharing in this podcast I’ll be looking at, you know, I’ll be, it will be a solo, it’s gonna be a mixed podcast. So sometimes it’s just gonna be me, sometimes I have guests on, on how to navigate different spaces or negotiate based off of having a powerful brand. So to somebody how to write a book, if that’s part of what you want to do to build your brand or, you know, making your way to a board seat, or the C suite. Right. So

Curt Anderson  45:36

well, I love that and we had recently, Wendy Covey. Damon’s uses that line, you know, hey, we eat our own dog food, you know? So whatever your cliche, whatever your line is, yes. And what I absolutely love. So if you know, I’m Damon, our huge dog lover, so we will use that line. So what we love is that you know, you teach what you preach, eat your own dog food, if you will. Maybe I need a new expression. No, I love it. But sure, this question just really just popped my head. And I had I feel I have to ask, you are such that first off, thank you. This has been just an absolute gift I had, you and I have never met for the restaurant. It’s our first time. I’ve been following you for years. And for many years, I’ve been like, you know, man, I’d love to get share on the show. And I caught your LinkedIn live your LinkedIn course about LinkedIn live, I was just completely smitten. And I was like, and I shot it was like, it might have been a Sunday. And I’m like, Hey, share, my name is Kurt, I got this little live show. And you know, when we connected and just felt, you know, hopefully, you know, it was a mutual kindred spirit. When do you ever have someone clients come to you, you are such a natural at this. You really are. And I’m not just saying that you truly have a gift you are you are truly sharing your purpose your cause with the world? Do people ever do your clients are fully shared, but you’re at this level? I just I can’t be shared, like how do you? How do you help your clients kind of like you’re not going to be share? How do you help them with not being shared, but being them to search themselves,

Cher Jones  47:00

I think by starting with their goals, and helping them recognize that there’s volumes and seasons to personal branding. And so what’s interesting for me is when you said something around like this is in my gifting, one of the things that I feel that I’ve been purpose for us to help people come alive in their gifts, and we spent so much time at work. And we spend so much time not being recognized or for what we bring to the table. And when we are working in our gifts and in our purpose, we come alive. And if you have a better life at work, you have a better life at home. Right? And so that’s my driver. That’s my that’s my why and that’s my purpose is I just want to and that’s where that whole you know, upgrade your brand change your life. That’s it’s it’s something that is so far reaching. It’s not just the tangible things that we you know, that you can imagine with a personal brand. So coming back down just to answer your question quickly. I feel that branding is seasonal, there will be seasons in your life, whether they’re short seasons, long seasons, where you are, your volume is high, meaning that you’re out there, you’re putting a lot of content, you’re doing a lot of things and sometimes you got to turn the volume down because there’s a lot going on, and you’ve got to quiet the noise. And sometimes and so I let people recognize that you can throttle this effort up and down. And you don’t you have be you and it’s based off of what you want to accomplish. And that will help you determine the level of effort or the level of volume for your personal brand. We’ll

Curt Anderson  48:39

talk about the value dropped the mic Damon? Yeah.

Damon Pistulka  48:43

That was a big one right there.

Curt Anderson  48:44

He says this has been so informative explanation point. Thank you for sharing your knowledge share. I will definitely subscribe to your podcast and seek more info. We strongly encourage you We invite you or you I probably don’t even need to ask you connect with share a file share on LinkedIn. Check out her podcasts. Here are two two quick questions I have left for you my friend. Number one fierce entrepreneur. Yeah, I can’t David I like i This has been a record for chills like it. You’ve given me chills like I can’t tell how many times this episode so get what a gift this is share. Best business advice that you’ve ever been given, say mentor, friend, parent, family member, would you started your entrepreneurial journey best business advice? No, your

Cher Jones  49:27

resentment number. This was like the number one piece of advice know your resentment number. That is the number of what you will walk away. Because if you take the work, you will resent even the slightest question for an update a change of this of that because you’ve already calmed down and so low that you’re bitter. And so you’ve got to know at what point will it degrade the value that you’re willing to give? And that’s when you’re like Nope, not gonna do it. And it’s hard to to Live that at first, but when you realize how freeing it becomes that was and I got that advice in 2013

Damon Pistulka  50:10

Yeah

Curt Anderson  50:13

sure, can I steal that line from you? So we have a line that we use all the time it’s called niche down till it hurts right? They were like I don’t know if every episode niche and you just took it to like a whole new level. Yeah. So guys follow just at hashtag just as share what I also encourage you hashtag What’s your resentment number that was Oh my okay shares big. That is huge. So I Daymond let’s go hey, Diane buyer

Damon Pistulka  50:43

and stopping in today. Hey, doubt, know your resentment, number of fans. Diane, thank

Curt Anderson  50:48

you. If you missed any of this, you gotta go back, hit the rewind button, touch share, follow share on LinkedIn, check out her LinkedIn course it is fantastic about LinkedIn live, she is has, I think well over 100 videos on YouTube. Damon, I have I’m going to ask one last question takeaways comments, thoughts? What’s going through your mind

Damon Pistulka  51:06

right? Oh, no, I’m just been busy. Right? No, it’s because shares just dropping tons of information here that really can help you to think about your brand, your whole CRM concept and and you know, what are your goals working through that whole thing was incredible. And then at the end, dropping the ultimate on the end? Knowing your resentment number, you know, I mean, that is that is like everybody should really think about that if you’re in the in the services space or, or whatever it is, because God we’ve all put ourselves into it. We said a we’d normally would charge 10 bucks, but they they asked, you know the gods somehow God that five and then every little thing that’s asked is just to

51:51

see your sacred egg because you didn’t do and

Cher Jones  51:53

that sort of thing. And so we wanted to make sure it’s like, easier said than done. But yet there? Yeah. It’s so good. Yeah.

Damon Pistulka  52:02

Yeah, it is. Oh, just so much stuff. So much stuff in there. So but when you think about it, the one thing that really stands out for me that people questioning about building their personal brand, you you said it early on, you know, support in your current role supporting what’s next and making the company look good. When you bring those things together. Your personal branding is good for you and your career and the company, which I think that both leaders out there should be thinking about? Yes,

Curt Anderson  52:30

absolutely. Damon, we’ve had multiple guests and now you and Jordan Yates was Flo. She’s a LinkedIn influencer. And I caught I saw her speaking at a conference in January, came on the show The following week, she came on our show, the final week after this conference, and was let go of her job in between me watching her as a keynote speaker. And coming on the show a week later, she was very vulnerable came on the show and shared with us that she had just she goes I hate to tell you, I just lost my job. And because of her personal brand on LinkedIn on LinkedIn, she immediately found another 2025 years old, which is just a wonderful inspiration. And we’ve had several folks like that on the show. So just such a perfect powerful example, Sharon, I’m sure you see that over and over and over. I

Cher Jones  53:18

1. I do. Your Brand works when you do the work. And that’s like one of my biggest like taglines when I’m talking about personal branding. Branding works when you do the work. Brand

Curt Anderson  53:27

new works when you do the work. So Alright, sure I have I know you have many lives, the sea change, change and everything else that you’re doing. So again, while everybody was hanging out, I want to say hey, let’s give Sarah a huge round of applause for just absolutely crushing it hitting the ball out of the park. Speaking of hitting the ball out of the park, share. I have one last question now. You’re from the great city of Toronto. Are you a Toronto Blue Jays fan by any chance? You are okay. We’re going to do it. We’re going to do it. So share. Are you ready? Are you still sitting down? Are you ready? You might think of the roller skates out for this one. You ready? Yeah. Okay, let’s say hypothetically, Toronto Blue Jays are playing the dreaded Boston Red Sox. Okay. It’s the bottom of the ninth. There’s a person on second base High Score High Score bottom ninth person on second base. The manager looks on the bench and says hey Jones, grab your helmet, grab your bag, get up to the plate we need to winning we need to hit like we need to when you run like now, right? You walk up you grab your bat pop on your helmet as you’re walking to the plate to hit in that one Enron winning run. And you might have touched on it earlier. What is your walk up song on the way to the plate? What is your walk up song on the way to the plate to hit in a winning run?

Cher Jones  54:49

Win Win win no matter what.

54:55

I had a girl she didn’t push it. She knew Friday. unfinished since you’re in sports before you have brothers every year, you are ready for this. Let’s go funny

Cher Jones  55:06

because you guys, when you when you write in the Red Sox, my first JS game that I worked on that I worked at, was when Pedro Martinez was was pitching for the Red Sox. So like, old school. That’s right.

Curt Anderson  55:20

You’re like five years old back then. Right? That’s a great answer. And so sure, in all seriousness, thank you from the bottom of my heart, I know how busy you are. And again, like, you know, that resentment number that you know, you probably get a lot of offers. And this really meant the world to us. We appreciate you sharing your passion, your brilliance, your wisdom, your just everything with our folks. And I just I want to, I feel that I speak for everybody. Thank you. We appreciate you

Cher Jones  55:48

so much. It was such a pleasure being on the show your resentment here, so I can’t wait to share this with my audience. It’s just, I really enjoyed the conversation. So thank you for inviting me on. I don’t take it lightly, or for granted. Well,

Curt Anderson  56:00

that means the world to us. So thank you, Damon, thank you for joining us today. Share. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, the chatbox just Dale, Amy, Diane, everybody. Thank you for joining us today. We appreciate it. We’re gonna be back here Friday. We have another amazing theme and we have a Daymond coming on the show Friday. scary thing to hear. We might have talked offline How do I handle two demons? So anyway, guys, have a great rest of your week. God bless you. Thank you for hanging out with us for one second and we will see you

Damon Pistulka  56:29

soon. See everyone. Bye guys.